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Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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To my understanding, the 3 witnesses listed in the first chapter of the Book of Mormon all later recanted their story and said they did not witness any golden plate. Two of them were also excommunicated from the church later on.
This does differ significantly from the New Testament, where 11 of the 12 apostles and probably many thousands of other disciples were willing to be brutally martyred for their beliefs. They all certainly seemed to never waver on their claims for the rest of their lives
To my understanding, the 3 witnesses listed in the first chapter of the Book of Mormon all later recanted their story and said they did not witness any golden plate. Two of them were also excommunicated from the church later on.
This does differ significantly from the New Testament, where 11 of the 12 apostles and probably many thousands of other disciples were willing to be brutally martyred for their beliefs. They all certainly seemed to never waver on their claims for the rest of their lives
Actually that is wrong. All 3 witnesses left the Church at one point or another. However none ever recanted their testimony that they had actually seen the plates. Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery later rejoined the Church. David Whitmer never did, but again never denied he had seen the plates. Now speaking of matrydom, Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum died for the cause. Hundreds of Mormons died after being forcibly exiled from the cities they built.
i would suggest rereading the wiki that you yourself posted, because as far as i, in my limited gunslinging experience was aware, not even in high-noon hollywood do wild west gunfights take place with one of the parties cornered, and outnumbered 40-to-one, in a jail cell.
but hey, i suppose that to some it might seem like a fair fight.
Joseph did as the angel instructed and went to the hill Cumorah which was near to his home in Palmyra, New York. There he met the angel Moroni again and received further instruction. He found the plates and other artifacts in a stone box which was buried. As he attemped to take the plates out of the box he was forbidden to do so, the angel telling him that the time to take possession of them had not arrived and niether would be until 4 years from that time. Joseph was commanded to come back to the hill Cumorah each year at the same time to receive intelligence and instruction on how the Lord's kingdom was to be conducted in the last days.
Jospeh Smith translated the Gold plates by the gift and power of God using the Urim and Thummin that was provided for this purpose. The Book of Mormon was first published in 1830 and now has been translated into many different languages. It is another testiment that Jesus is the Christ and that all may be saved who come unto Him and obey the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
The introduction of the Book of Mormon--not written by Moroni--says "The prophet Joseph Smith said 'I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than by any other book'"
As coolcats said, in addition to Joseph Smith there were eleven others who were permitted to see the gold plates for themselves and bear testimony to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Their testimonies are included in the front part of the Book of Mormon and are known as the Testimony of Three Witnesses and the Testimony of Eight Witnesses. The testimony of the three witnesses is very interesting because all three of them were excommunicated and could have made a good living writing expose's and giving lectures telling the "truth" about the Book of Mormon, had it been a complex hoax. All three of the witnesses saw the angel and bore testimony that the Book was of God. I encourage everyone with a copy of the Book of Mormon to read their testimony.
Much has been said to denigrate the Book of Mormon or to imply that Joseph Smith wrote it. Joseph Smith had a second grade education. It would have been impossible for him to have written such a book. I have quoted extensively from the Book of Mormon so that many who read this thread who are unlikely to ever seriously read the book for themselves might be exposed to some of the book's profound messages. There has been very little criticism of the passages I have quoted. They are completely compatible with the Bible and amplify and clarify the Bible's more mysterious passages. They do not sound like the product of a wild-eyed, dishonest, itinerate snake-charmer as the anti-Mormon crowd describes Joseph Smith.
When Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon he dictated it word for word to his scribe. He never went back and made changes. I do not believe he dictated punctuation or spelling--which has been a crazy criticism of others on this thread. I cannot address all the misconceptions and disinformation out there about the Book of Mormon, but all the readers on this thread are a little more educated than those who blindly accept the criticism of others--and can be even more educated if they will read the book for themselves.
Last edited by zimbabwe; 03-03-2008 at 04:52 PM..
Reason: clarification
Zimbabwe,
I found this to be interesting...... is the correct about
LDS doctrine makes the claim that a person has an eternity after life on earth to satisfy Heavenly Father’s demand for perfection?
Ensign May 1989 p 20: “Elder Joseph Fielding Smith offers this counsel: ‘Salvation does not come all at once, we are commanded to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. It will take us ages to accomplish this end, for there will be greater progress beyond the grave.’”
Zimbabwe,
I found this to be interesting...... is the correct about
LDS doctrine makes the claim that a person has an eternity after life on earth to satisfy Heavenly Father’s demand for perfection?
Ensign May 1989 p 20: “Elder Joseph Fielding Smith offers this counsel: ‘Salvation does not come all at once, we are commanded to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. It will take us ages to accomplish this end, for there will be greater progress beyond the grave.’”
Where are you getting this quote? You are spending too much time studying Mormonism I think. I looked for it myself and here it is:
“Salvation does not come all at once; we are commanded to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. It will take us ages to accomplish this end, for there will be greater progress beyond the grave, and it will be there that the faithful will overcome all things, and receive all things, even the fulness of the Father’s glory.
“I believe the Lord meant just what he said: that we should be perfect, as our Father in heaven is perfect. That will not come all at once, but line upon line, and precept upon precept, example upon example, and even then not as long as we live in this mortal life, for we will have to go even beyond the grave before we reach that perfection and shall be like God.” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 2:18–19.)
It was the Lord that commanded us to be perfect. This is not a casual endeavor nor will it be accomplished in this lifetime. I would think that would relieve you of all the pressure you feel, Twin, but I know you are going to go off criticisizing my faith again. Forgive me, but you are beginning to sound like Johnny One Note.
What and (or) who are the spirits that you are asking?
Where in scripture does it say to perform the above?
Only God the Father.
From the Bible we read:
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. James 1:5-6
Similarly in the Book of Mormon we read:
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
You know what's funny about this. I first heard this claim while a missionary in Russia back in 1994. Now it is possible that both you and the guy in Russia 14 years ago independently came up with this accusation. But I don't think it's too likely.
I'd be curious to know where you heard this. I'll wager that:
A) You heard it in Church as part of a sermon about "cults and false religions."
B) You heard it in Bible college in a class about "cults and false religions."
C) You read it on a website dedicated to exposing "cults and false religions."
D) You were the preacher/teacher/writer who produced the content above after completing your course of study vesting you with authority for your particular denomination.
So since these claims appear to be widespread around the globe, it would be only fair if you let us know where you first heard them. Was it A, B, C, D, or -- less likely - some scenario I didn't lay out?
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