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It was Jesus Christ who stated what is recorded in Matthew 25:41, 46 and who gave the Revelation to John of which Revelation 20:10-15 is a part. It is Jesus Christ who will be the judge at the great white throne judgment in which all whose names are not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire forever.
This same Jesus Christ said he came to seek and save the lost, well if you are lost i have good news for you, Jesus Christ is seeking you out, not to present you with a choice but to find you and take you home(to your Fathers heart), he also said if he is lifted up would draw all men until himself, he also said of those you believe are hell bound, father forgive them for they know not what they do. We can go back and forth all night trading scriptures, but as for me i will go with my heart tells me( you fundies might believe the heart is desperately wicked, i don't and is it any wonder christians struggle with sin believing they are wicked).
This same Jesus Christ said he came to seek and save the lost, well if you are lost i have good news for you, Jesus Christ is seeking you out, not to present you with a choice but to find you and take you home(to your Fathers heart), he also said if he is lifted up would draw all men until himself, he also said of those you believe are hell bound, father forgive them for they know not what they do. We can go back and forth all night trading scriptures, but as for me i will go with my heart tells me( you fundies might believe the heart is desperately wicked, i don't and is it any wonder christians struggle with sin believing they are wicked).
Actually Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who had crucified Him for they did not know what they were doing. While all sin was judged at the cross, no one has forgiveness until they believe in Jesus as per Acts 10:43 and 26:18.
The fact that Jesus came to seek and save the lost as per Luke 19:10 does not negate the fact that those who refuse God's plan of salvation will remain eternally lost. God desires that all men be saved, but not apart from His established plan.
Yes, Jesus said that if He be lifted up from the earth with reference to being crucified on the cross He will draw all men to Himself as per John 12:32. But He also said that some will be lost as per John 5:28-29. His reference to drawing all men to Himself is not with regard to every individual, but to the fact that among the saved will be both Jews and Gentiles. Men from every tribe, language, people, and nation (Rev. 5:9; compared with John 10:16; 11:52).
I prefer to go with the more sure Word of God.
2 Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
Jesus' revelation to John.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11] Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14] Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; . . . 46]"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Actually Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who had crucified Him for they did not know what they were doing. While all sin was judged at the cross, no one has forgiveness until they believe in Jesus as per Acts 10:43 and 26:18.
The fact that Jesus came to seek and save the lost as per Luke 19:10 does not negate the fact that those who refuse God's plan of salvation will remain eternally lost. God desires that all men be saved, but not apart from His established plan.
Yes, Jesus said that if He be lifted up from the earth with reference to being crucified on the cross He will draw all men to Himself as per John 12:32. But He also said that some will be lost as per John 5:28-29. His reference to drawing all men to Himself is not with regard to every individual, but to the fact that among the saved will be both Jews and Gentiles. Men from every tribe, language, people, and nation (Rev. 5:9; compared with John 10:16; 11:52).
I prefer to go with the more sure Word of God.
2 Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
Jesus' revelation to John.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11] Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14] Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; . . . 46]"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
The Word of God!!!
This proves how you are limited in your thinking in the things pertaining to God. This verse applies to them not us that verse is for us not them. It is the bible speaking to you not the spirit illuminating the mind of God through the scriptures to you. Peter preached at pentecost " you crucified him" christianity teaches it was our sin that put him there, you want it all ways and all ways that fit the doctrine of men. The belief in the literal lake of fire by christianity proves it does not know God.
This same Jesus Christ said he came to seek and save the lost, well if you are lost i have good news for you, Jesus Christ is seeking you out, not to present you with a choice but to find you and take you home(to your Fathers heart), he also said if he is lifted up would draw all men until himself, he also said of those you believe are hell bound, father forgive them for they know not what they do. We can go back and forth all night trading scriptures, but as for me i will go with my heart tells me( you fundies might believe the heart is desperately wicked, i don't and is it any wonder christians struggle with sin believing they are wicked).
Those who lost their identity and due to that lost their way, for as a man thinks in heart so is he. Yes i know you think it is about a little old Israel.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11] Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14] Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The Word of God!!!
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; . . . 46]"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
The Word of God!!! Not "precepts and doctrines of men."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
If its not entered your mind to do such a thing as throw someone into a literal lake of fire or punishment for eternity, yet its entered the mind of God, then your thoughts and ways are higher than the God you believe in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
You are taking Jeremiah 7:31 and 19:5 out of context and giving it a meaning not in keeping with what it says. What God never commanded, or spoke of, and which never entered His mind was that the Jews should enter into idolatry and sacrifice their children to Baal.
Jeremiah 7:31 "They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.
Jeremiah 19:4 "Because they have forsaken Me and have made this an alien place and have burned sacrifices in it to other gods, that neither they nor their forefathers nor the kings of Judah had ever known, and because they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. 5] and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind;
God had in fact forbidden human sacrifice as recorded in Leviticus 20:2-4
And God punished them for their idolatry and human sacrifice - Jeremiah 7:32-8:3 and 19:6-15.
It is not valid to attempt to use the fact that it never entered the mind of God that the Jews should sacrifice their children to other gods in idolatry to justify dismissing passages such as Matthew 25:41,46 and Revelation 20:10-15 which plainly state that the lake of fire is real and the punishment eternal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
It was Jesus Christ who stated what is recorded in Matthew 25:41, 46 and who gave the Revelation to John of which Revelation 20:10-15 is a part. It is Jesus Christ who will be the judge at the great white throne judgment in which all whose names are not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Actually Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who had crucified Him for they did not know what they were doing. While all sin was judged at the cross, no one has forgiveness until they believe in Jesus as per Acts 10:43 and 26:18.
The fact that Jesus came to seek and save the lost as per Luke 19:10 does not negate the fact that those who refuse God's plan of salvation will remain eternally lost. God desires that all men be saved, but not apart from His established plan.
Yes, Jesus said that if He be lifted up from the earth with reference to being crucified on the cross He will draw all men to Himself as per John 12:32. But He also said that some will be lost as per John 5:28-29. His reference to drawing all men to Himself is not with regard to every individual, but to the fact that among the saved will be both Jews and Gentiles. Men from every tribe, language, people, and nation (Rev. 5:9; compared with John 10:16; 11:52).
I prefer to go with the more sure Word of God.
2 Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
Jesus' revelation to John.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11] Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14] Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; . . . 46]"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
The Word of God!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
This proves how you are limited in your thinking in the things pertaining to God. This verse applies to them not us that verse is for us not them. It is the bible speaking to you not the spirit illuminating the mind of God through the scriptures to you. Peter preached at pentecost " you crucified him" christianity teaches it was our sin that put him there, you want it all ways and all ways that fit the doctrine of men. The belief in the literal lake of fire by christianity proves it does not know God.
It was Jesus Himself who stated that He Himself will order into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels those who are going there, and that their punishment will be forever . It was Matthew who under the filling and guidance of the Holy Spirit accurately recorded what Jesus said in Matthew 25:41,46.
It was Jesus who gave the Revelation to John in which He [Jesus] revealed that at the great white throne judgment after the Millennium all whose names are not in the book of life will be sent into the lake of fire.
The existence of the place described as the lake of fire is a reality. It will be the place where those who have rejected God's plan of salvation will exist throughout the eternal future. So says God as revealed in His Word.
Quoting what Jesus Himself said is not accusing Him.
But ignoring the mounds of evidence that questions the authenticity of the authorship and validity of the attributions to Christ IS. Despite the plentiful evidence of duplicity, political negotiation and agenda-driven compromise by MEN . . . you do not test the Spirit of what is attributed to Christ against the Spirit of Christ that He revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by His life and most especially His death by torture and crucifixion!!! He smote no one and even loved His torturers and murderers unto death. "No greater love . . ." The Spirit of Christ IS the Holy Spirit of God and it must be used to test the Spirit of anything attributed to Him by men.
It was Jesus Himself who stated that He Himself will order into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels those who are going there, and that their punishment will be forever . It was Matthew who under the filling and guidance of the Holy Spirit accurately recorded what Jesus said in Matthew 25:41,46.
It was Jesus who gave the Revelation to John in which He [Jesus] revealed that at the great white throne judgment after the Millennium all whose names are not in the book of life will be sent into the lake of fire.
The existence of the place described as the lake of fire is a reality. It will be the place where those who have rejected God's plan of salvation will exist throughout the eternal future. So says God as revealed in His Word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Why do people keep accusing Christ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Quoting what Jesus Himself said is not accusing Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
But ignoring the mounds of evidence that questions the authenticity of the authorship and validity of the attributions to Christ IS. Despite the plentiful evidence of duplicity, political negotiation and agenda-driven compromise by MEN . . . you do not test the Spirit of what is attributed to Christ against the Spirit of Christ that He revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by His life and most especially His death by torture and crucifixion!!! He smote no one and even loved His torturers and murderers unto death. "No greater love . . ." The Spirit of Christ IS the Holy Spirit of God and it must be used to test the Spirit of anything attributed to Him by men.
Let's take Matthew 25:41 specifically. Jesus spoke these words concerning Himself.
Matthew 25:41 Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matthew 25:41 is found in Tatian's 'Diatessaron' which is perhaps the first gospel harmony. It is dated to A.D. 170-175 which means that Tatian used already existing manuscripts from which he copied. Matthew 25:41 is found in Section XLIII of the 'Diaessaron'. Here is the 'Diaessaron.' - Diatessaron. The Diatessaron (translation Roberts-Donaldson).
Now present all available evidence if you can to show that manuscript copies pre-existing A.D. 170 did not contain Matthew 25:41. Prove that Matthew 25:41 is not authentic.
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