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This is what makes the Trinity difficult to understand as humans. Jesus said that He is one with the Father, yet we know historically that He was also completely human, having faced every temptation that we have and more, yet because He was God, He lived without sin, ultimately becoming the spotless sacrifice needed to remove the penalty of man's sin. While it is difficult to fully understand with our limited, dying human brains, it does not have to be difficult to believe, in my opinion.
When God says there is one God and you are not to have any other God beside him that does not say that God can not give authority to Jesus to be his mediator, his image, his representative and that any worship given to God through Christ is acceptable because Jesus is the way to the Father - that is why it says that Jesus is the way, the truth, the life.
Scripture says that God has given all things into Jesus hands. For all things to be given to Jesus means that before he was given them he did not have them.
Jesus is not a separate God - He is the Son of God. God calls Jesus (god) because he has been delegated that title from God has his image, representative
Amen, Meerkat. God bless.
He is the exact image, likeness, or representation of the invisible God, Amen? (Colossians1) But the invisible God, God the Father is absolute Deity. He gave all things to Jesus, the Son and He appointed Jesus, the Son. The Son was given all authority by the Father who is absolute Deity. The Son can do nothing without the Father, the source. The Son always points to the Father. The Son delivers all things to the Father, is subject to the Father and will be subject to the Father. He will reign until He puts all enemies under His feet.
How can one who is absolute Deity be subject to absolute Deity?
How can one who has all authority be given any authority?
How can one who is absolute Deity be a likeness of absolute Deity?
1 Corinthians 8:
4Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one;
5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many -- 6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;
John 5: 30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of himthat sent me.
Right here you have human logic trying to make 3 persons/beings being made equal to 1.
3 does not equal 1
When God says there is one God and you are not to have any other God beside him that does not say that God can not give authority to Jesus to be his mediator, his image, his representative and that any worship given to God through Christ is acceptable because Jesus is the way to the Father - that is why it says that Jesus is the way, the truth, the life.
Scripture says that God has given all things into Jesus hands. For all things to be given to Jesus means that before he was given them he did not have them.
Jesus is not a separate God - He is the Son of God. God calls Jesus (god) because he has been delegated that title from God has his image, representative.
David was a prefigure of Jesus.
God would not contradict Himself by saying, He would not give His glory to ANYONE yet Jesus says, God gave Him the glory. God would not go against His own nature for ANYONE else He IS NOT God.
Philippians 2:
9wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that [is] above every name,10that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow -- of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth -- 11and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
John 17
1 These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, He said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify Thee:
Jesus, the Son, represents the Father. He always points back to the Father. He came to reveal the Father and when we glorify the Son, we glorify the Father. God bless.
I agree wholeheartedly but God gets all the glory. It is His nature to get all the glory so if He gives the glory to Jesus a created being then He is contradicting Himself unless Jesus is God then there is no contradiction.
But whatever glory Jesus receives is directed to the Father. He is the Son, the Word made flesh, acting on behalf of the Father. All glory ultimately goes to the Father because the Son is reflecting the Father. His purpose is to glorify the Father. I believe that Jesus is God in a restrictive sense but how can He be absolute Deity, Fundamentalist? The Father gave Jesus all things.
How can one who is absolute Deity be subject to absolute Deity?
How can one who has all authority be given any authority?
How can one who has all power be given anything?
How can one who is absolute Deity be a likeness or representation of absolute Deity?
John 5: 30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of himthat sent me.
If Jesus is absolute Deity why would He say that He can of Himself do nothing, that He seeks not his own will but the will of the Father?
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-13-2008 at 02:38 PM..
But whatever glory Jesus receives is directed to the Father. He is the Son, the Word made flesh, acting on behalf of the Father. All glory ultimately goes to the Father because He is reflecting the Father. His purpose is to glorify the Father. I believe that Jesus is God in a restrictive sense but how can He be absolute Deity, Fundamentalist? The Father gave Jesus all things.
How can one who is absolute Deity be subject to absolute Deity?
How can one who has all authority be given any authority?
How can one who has all power be given anything?
How can one who is absolute Deity be a likeness or representation of absolute Deity?
God bless.
Sorry but that's a stretch. You still have a contradiction.
Isaiah 42:8 “I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.”
Isaiah 48:11 11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another.
Jesus said, “…Father, the hour has come; glorify your son…”
He and the Father are one only with different roles, (I know comparison limps) but much like a husband and wife.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 11-13-2008 at 02:46 PM..
The Word was God meaning that the message was God. It was all about God revealing Himself to us. And that is what the Word did. The Word made flesh, Jesus, explains, reveals the Father to us. Some translations have, "And God was the Word." Jesus came to glory the Father. Jesus was not a graven image. He was the exact image of the invisible God. If Jesus was the exact image or representation of the invisible God, how could He be absolute Deity? Jesus came, was sent by the Father. to glorify the Father so the Father ultimately gets all of the glory. He did not seek His own glory.
Again,
How can one who is absolute Deity be subject to absolute Deity?
How can one who has all authority be given any authority?
How can one who has all power be given anything?
How can one who is absolute Deity be a likeness or representation of absolute Deity?
John 17
1 These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, He said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify Thee:
The Word was God meaning that the message was God. It was all about God revealing Himself to us. Some translations have, "And God was the Word."
EXACTLY! and the word became flesh. Jesus is God in the flesh
Quote:
Jesus came to glory the Father.
We ALL glorify the father but He does not give us glory
Quote:
Jesus was not a graven image. He was the exact image of the invisible God. If Jesus was the exact image or representation of the invisible God, how could He be absolute Deity? Jesus came, was sent by the Father. to glorify the Father so the Father ultimately gets all of the glory. He did not seek His own glory.
all through the bible Jesus sought glory. Thomas said, My Lord and my God. Jesus asked Peter, who do you say I am? Jesus allowed people to worship Him Jesus said, that before Abraham, I am. Jesus said, that He and the Father are one.
John 17:1 “…Father, the hour has come; glorify your son…”
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