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Having done performed actuarial duties in my past professional life, and given that somewhere close to 50% of the population is divorced and remarried---only a portion of which was due to adultery--it is statistically quite probable for a church of any size (which I noted previously) to have quite a few of those folks as part of its membership.
Is that not so in your church? If it isn't, then I apologize. If it is, I'm thinking there is plenty of homegrown sin to be addressed over and above homosexuality--and it's right there in the congregation to be addressed.
I think you are right that divorce is rampant and that it is a terrible thing. There certainly are members of our congregation who were divorced long before they joined with us and some who were divorced after they joined our flock. We do not view divorce as a casual everyday thing as some tend to see it. One case I know of, the woman's ex-husband was so violent that the lives of her and her children were in serious jeopardy. I don't know for 100% certain, but I believe he was also unfaithful. In another case, it was definitely adultery that ended the marriage. In both cases, I don't see a problem with the divorce. Those are the only cases that I know much back-story on.
Divorce is a tricky thing since it really comes down to who instigates it. For instance, if my wife came to me tomorrow with divorce papers and stubbornly rebuffed all efforts on my part to reconcile, am I guilty of anything? If I remarry, am I now a sinner? But who other than God himself can truly sort out who is guilty in such matters? In clear-cut cases of adultery or spousal abuse, the guilty party is cut off as directed by Christ in Matthew 18:9. "And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." They may still repent and eventually be reunited with us, but they must realize their seriousness of their sins. We may be a tad less formal of a congregation, but we also do our level best to live up to the standard set forth by our Lord Jesus Christ.
We do take the following very seriously: Matthew 19:6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." Those who have caused a divorce through their own selfish sinful behavior add the sin of divorce atop the rest. They can still repent, change and be forgiven -- so yes we most certainly recognize it as sin. Those who have been divorced through no fault of their own are comforted and advised to seek Christ to heal their broken hearts and spirits. Sometimes it is very clear cut which is which. Sometimes it isn't and it must be left entirely to the Lord to judge. We must live in a world where divorce is commonplace, but strive for a world where divorce is entirely done away with.
Does that answer your question? If so, shall we get back on topic? This thread is asking about homosexuality after all.
Would you care to expand on what you mean by "let Scripture interpret itself"?
Consider all the verses that discuss the subject, not just one in isolation and since we do not all know Biblical Hebrew or Greek, check various translations for word use and if possible check lexicons for the full range of meanings, then if one has the tools also check the grammar as many verses like John 8:58 are translated in violation of the grammar.
I will try to give an example later, but no time right now.
You've missed the point. You are convinced that you know the 'one truth' and that it is 'black and white'. Other people are convinced that they do.
You all think you are right - and others who think differently to you are wrong.
You can't all be right. Although you could all be wrong.
Ultimately, there is one right answer to every question in its absolute form.
Either God exists or He does not. There is no middle ground on this question.
Either homosexuality is right or it is wrong. There is no middle ground on this either.
Either adultery is right or it is wrong. There is no middle ground on this issue.
Beating somebody up just because you can is either right or it is wrong. There is no middle ground on this issue.
Intentionally spreading false rumors about another person is either right or it is wrong. There is no middle ground on this issue.
Abortion used as a means of birth control is either right or wrong. There is no middle ground on this issue.
Some Christians may have incorrect theories about all sorts of things. There must be a right answer on every point. But when it comes to the basics beliefs about moral behavior in society, the vast majority of the entire human race is pretty much in agreement on everything. The selfish, the worldly and the sinful people out there are always trying to redefine right and wrong to suit their lifestyles, and homosexuality is just one example of many. But it's still either right or it's wrong. What is right is not always popular. What is popular is not always right.
You've missed the point. You are convinced that you know the 'one truth' and that it is 'black and white'. Other people are convinced that they do.
You all think you are right - and others who think differently to you are wrong.
You can't all be right. Although you could all be wrong.
All you did was repeat yourself, even though I already explained it. There are people who believe the Holocaust never happened. They have a belief, but that belief is wrong. Every belief is not equal and one must use logic and evidence to prove otherwise. All of my beliefs are always under the submission of new evidence.
Consider all the verses that discuss the subject, not just one in isolation and since we do not all know Biblical Hebrew or Greek, check various translations for word use and if possible check lexicons for the full range of meanings, then if one has the tools also check the grammar as many verses like John 8:58 are translated in violation of the grammar.
I will try to give an example later, but no time right now.
That is still a person interpreting the scripture, not the scripture interpreting itself.
All you did was repeat yourself, even though I already explained it. There are people who believe the Holocaust never happened. They have a belief, but that belief is wrong. Every belief is not equal and one must use logic and evidence to prove otherwise. All of my beliefs are always under the submission of new evidence.
Again, you think you are right, and anyone who thinks differently to you is wrong.
This is a meaningless platitude. It is an impossibility. Words "written in ink" can interpret nothing. It takes a Spirit (consciousness) to do that. The Spirit that we should use to interpret scripture is the Spirit of God who IS agape love and was demonstrated unambiguously by Christ. The "mind of Christ"(human consciousness of Christ) IS the "mind of God" (consciousness of God) and that IS the Holy Spirit of agape love. There is only one interpretation of scripture that is truth and that is whatever is compatible with agape love. If it is NOT compatible with agape love . . . it is NOT from God or Jesus, period. It is the "precepts and doctrines of men."
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
You are right in one respect. When men "interpret" scripture you get a LOT of interpretations. When we let Scripture interpret itself, you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist
Would you care to expand on what you mean by "let Scripture interpret itself"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Consider all the verses that discuss the subject, not just one in isolation and since we do not all know Biblical Hebrew or Greek, check various translations for word use and if possible check lexicons for the full range of meanings, then if one has the tools also check the grammar as many verses like John 8:58 are translated in violation of the grammar.
I will try to give an example later, but no time right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist
That is still a person interpreting the scripture, not the scripture interpreting itself.
These kinds of obvious truths seem to evade detection when dogma is defended, Ceist. I often wonder if they actually don't see it or if there is some other cognitive mechanism at work . . . like dissonance.
Again, you think you are right, and anyone who thinks differently to you is wrong.
For a third time, you ignore my points. Do you not weigh evidence to make decisions? Do you not justify your beliefs with logic and reasoning? Do you believe that a theory of moon-cheese is as equally valid as a theory of moon-rock simply because someone believes it to be true? It's illogical.
The reason you refuse to answer is because it would require you to make an informed decision instead of blanketing all beliefs as valid.
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