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Although the Church was not always right, it was more right than any other secular power
during those years, and indeed more right than any other religious power. Non-Catholics
are quick to judge the Church's actions without full information and with bias and hindsight.
Deeper research reveals the Church, when able to fully control actions within its domains
(as opposed to monarchs and movements which resisted papal authority and acted on their own)
was a generally benevolent entity. There is much to learn about the misdeeds and socially
deleterious activities of Cathars, and pagan tribes, such as marauding barbarians and pre-Christians
all across Europe. These people were real threats to safety and civilization. Monasteries and
convents were blessings to the land and peoples who lived there, constantly under threat.
It was the Church which single-handedly made learning and human development possible,
founded the first universities, legal due process, and brought moral order to the age.
Please no retorts, I know what I've said is true.
Dear snowball,
I am sure those caught up in the Roman church Inquisition would gladly agree with your view of "due process". I am sure that Galileo also thought the church was forward thinking when the Inquisitors from the church showed up at his front door, and first physically broke the man, and then confined him to his home for the rest of his life.
And what was the moral order. The church owned much of the property, and the serfs were put down by the church and the rulers, and not even Martin Luther would intervene.
The church can fully control its actions within its domain, the Vatican, and yet it is a bank for the mafia, and a carnival for the gay high clergy. The Secret Lives of the Vatican’s Gay Cardinals, Monks, and Other Clergy Members | Vanity Fair According to the present Pope, 2 % of the priesthood are pedophiles. I would think that a little low as according to the study quoted in Vanity fair, 20 to 60 % of the clergy are gay. Pedophiles in the public in large, would be put in prison. The Vatican has a long history of protecting them.
No, your pope, who professes to hold the keys of the kingdom, according to Isaiah 22:22-25, will "fall" and those "hanging" on to him, will be "cut off"(Is 22:25) , "in that day". which alludes to the day of the Lord, which according to the Mt 24:33, he is "right at the door".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
The Catholic Church is the most important entity regarding the success of Western Civilization.
They preserved knowledge by copying texts in monasteries, established the University system and promoted education and the arts, science, architecture, etc.
Sure, at times they demonstrated the ignorance of men from that era, but the good was greater than the bad by far. Europe and America would be no different than the Middle East if not for the church.
If your truly interested in the role of the church, good and bad, read Norman Cantor's "The Civilization of the Middle Ages: A Completely Revised and Expanded Edition of Medieval History"
Cantor is an acknowledge expert historian. The book outlines the history from the time Rome fell to the early 1600's. This is a must read for anyone interested in the era, and it goes beyond the Catholic Church's role, although that role is very important.
I freely admit the errors of some men running the Church! What else is new? And yes pedophilia is wrong, however, that is not the teaching of the church. Would I say all Protestants are evil because Jimmy Swaggert sees prostitutes? No, that would be evil form my part. Please read the website below!
Dear snowball,
I am sure those caught up in the Roman church Inquisition would gladly agree with your view of "due process". I am sure that Galileo also thought the church was forward thinking when the Inquisitors from the church showed up at his front door, and first physically broke the man, and then confined him to his home for the rest of his life.
And what was the moral order. The church owned much of the property, and the serfs were put down by the church and the rulers, and not even Martin Luther would intervene.
The church can fully control its actions within its domain, the Vatican, and yet it is a bank for the mafia, and a carnival for the gay high clergy. The Secret Lives of the Vatican’s Gay Cardinals, Monks, and Other Clergy Members | Vanity Fair According to the present Pope, 2 % of the priesthood are pedophiles. I would think that a little low as according to the study quoted in Vanity fair, 20 to 60 % of the clergy are gay. Pedophiles in the public in large, would be put in prison. The Vatican has a long history of protecting them.
No, your pope, who professes to hold the keys of the kingdom, according to Isaiah 22:22-25, will "fall" and those "hanging" on to him, will be "cut off"(Is 22:25) , "in that day". which alludes to the day of the Lord, which according to the Mt 24:33, he is "right at the door".
Dude, no one denies the evil of man. NO different than the evil acts in the Old Testament.
But, despite ALL the errors the Church prevails as the most important factor in Western Civilization. I suggest you take a vacation trip to Europe and see the mark of the Church in every single European country.
Dear snowball,
I am sure those caught up in the Roman church Inquisition would gladly agree with your view of "due process". I am sure that Galileo also thought the church was forward thinking when the Inquisitors from the church showed up at his front door, and first physically broke the man, and then confined him to his home for the rest of his life.
The Dark Ages epitomize the evil of illiteracy and ignorance. The RCC cannot acknowledge their heinous history of inquisitions, genocide and corruption and still pretend to any special Godly inspiration and superior position, IMO.
There can be no defense of the Inquisition, or genocide or ANY exercise of force in religious matters. God does not need us puny humans to force what He desires from us voluntarily. It is human vanity, hubris and desire for power that promotes the enforcement of God's laws using human sanctions. The history of the hierarchy of the RCC is the most egregious example of continuous human corruption over millennia.
There can be no defense of the Inquisition, or genocide or ANY exercise of force in religious matters. God does not need us puny humans to force what He desires from us voluntarily. It is human vanity, hubris and desire for power that promotes the enforcement of God's laws using human sanctions. The history of the hierarchy of the RCC is the most egregious example of continuous human corruption over millennia.
Sometimes you talk like a born again.
If I follow your logic then all Germans are worthless and corrupt because of the holocaust.
All Spaniards are evil because they killed indigenous people during the "conquista" of Latin America.
The USA is evil because they massacred filipinos in the Philippine–American War and because they favored slavery.
The list is endless.!!!!!!
I admit all ERROS of the Church, no point in rehashing the errors. Despite the errors the Church is the most important factor for anyone in the planet that has western values. You are who you are because of the dominance of the church for hundred s of years.
We "Christians" will not solve the problems in the Middle East- only God will. I believe His Word tells us there will be no lasting peace there until Christ returns to rule. We should pray for peace, especially "The peace of Jerusalem", but "we" cannot bring it about through war or diplomacy. I don't believe God calls us to wage a Holy War against Islam- only to defend ourselves from their attacks.
If I follow your logic then all Germans are worthless and corrupt because of the holocaust.
All Spaniards are evil because they killed indigenous people during the "conquista" of Latin America.
The USA is evil because they massacred filipinos in the Philippine–American War and because they favored slavery.
The list is endless.!!!!!!
I admit all ERROS of the Church, no point in rehashing the errors. Despite the errors the Church is the most important factor for anyone in the planet that has western values. You are who you are because of the dominance of the church for hundred s of years.
Your "logic" is illogical.
You are painting with too broad of a brush to avoid the reality that the leadership was absolutely corrupt and ignored Jesus so as to maintain their own power.
Your "logic" is illogical.
You are painting with too broad of a brush to avoid the reality that the leadership was absolutely corrupt and ignored Jesus so as to maintain their own power.
The men in charge of the Church had a medieval mindset. These men not Gods. Men are prone to make mistakes.
Do you think the USA is a crappy country because it killed Indians, enslaved blacks, massacred filipinos, etc.
Quote:
General Jacob H. Smith's infamous order "Kill Everyone Over Ten" was the caption in the New York Journal cartoon on May 5, 1902. The Old Glory draped an American shield on which a vulture replaced the bald eagle. The caption at the bottom proclaimed, "Criminals Because They Were Born Ten Years Before We Took the Philippines"
WIKI
Of course not!
If you are of German ancestry----are you responsible for the Holocaust?
No, you are not.
Blaming the Church of today for things that happen in medieval times is complete ridiculous.
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What else is new? And yes pedophilia is wrong, however, that is not the teaching of the church. Would I say all Protestants are evil because Jimmy Swaggert sees prostitutes? No, that would be evil form my part. Please read the website below!
