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If you don't mind sharing, I'd be interested in hearing how you came to the beliefs you outlined above.
Years of asking, seeking and knocking. Reading the words of Jesus as recorded in scripture, and other books that the spirit has confirmed to be the word of God.
The Bible (KJV&Aramaic)
Some of the lost books of the bible (especially Odes of Solomon)
The Apocrypha
Doctrines and covenants
Book of Mormon
The works of Annalee Skarin
James Allen- as a man thinketh
All confirmed to be the word of God. They glorify God, cause me to pray and worship to God, so they are of Him
THat is what Day of the Lord has called me. So maybe you have the temperance to explain...
WHat is a universalist?
godspeed,
freedom
Freedom, with all due respect, there are many threads on this forum that explain the answer to your question. It seems to be their favorite ploy, hijacking other threads with a discussion of their doctrine.
Your question in the thread you started, "Did Jesus die for all?" would be their thinking.... no hell and universal salvation is the key to identifying a universalist.
Freedom, with all due respect, there are many threads on this forum that explain the answer to your question. It seems to be their favorite ploy, hijacking other threads with a discussion of their doctrine.
Your question in the thread you started, "Did Jesus die for all?" would be their thinking.... no hell and universal salvation is the key to identifying a universalist.
If you have followed my threads, then you would know that i believe Hell is very real, and its population is grand.
Jesus did die for all, not all will benefit from it.
But is striving to do your best necessary for salvation? As I see it, there are at least three views here:
All who believe in Jesus will be saved.
In order to be saved you must believe in Jesus *and* do certain works
Through Jesus, all will be saved, whether they believe or not
All three views have been around for a long time.
I think twin.spin holds the first view, Mormonism teaches the second, and I lean toward the third.
If I read twin.spin correctly, he thinks only people who believe the first view are Christians. (Twin.spin, did I represent you accurately there?) I have no problems calling all three groups Christian. And therein lies the central disagreement, I think.
MomtoFour,
That is accurate representation of not just my take on things, but it is what Jesus taught.
( underlined verse references are linked to Biblegateway.com) Mark 16:16
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
Other verses that say the same are:
The Bible also teaches the same lesson from faith only. Jesus said that those whom he healed or sins were forgiven was by faith, nothing more. Luke 7:50 "Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." Matthew 9:22 "Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." Romans 1:17 "For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live byfaith." Also found in
Hebrews 10:38 "But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him." __________________________________________________ ______________
Living a God pleasing life is done not as part of salvation, instead its because of what Christ did for me. Self righteous and the work righteous have the emphasis wrong.. "Only the righteous will live by faith"
It is also wrong to link "Once saved always saved" with "I can live anyway that I want to". I have written many times about that to the contrary of both statements using Biblical verses. But that takes away any "ya but" arguments.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
As far as point #3, those who do not have the correct belief in Jesus are going to hell.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
John 3:14-16 "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
John 3:18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
1 John 5:10 "Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son."
Last edited by twin.spin; 05-22-2008 at 03:13 PM..
Hey twin, I would like to know exactly what you think we will be judged on when the time comes?
Also I don't remember off the top of my head when you posted the difference between "once saved / always saved" and "i can live however I want to". If you can find it, let me know where you posted it at, I would be interested to read that.
Hey twin, I would like to know exactly what you think we will be judged on when the time comes?
Also I don't remember off the top of my head when you posted the difference between "once saved / always saved" and "i can live however I want to". If you can find it, let me know where you posted it at, I would be interested to read that.
So that this isn't too long, let me first reference the topic regarding the error of "Once Saved always saved", "I can live any way I want to" and "what we are judged on" that you're asking about.
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The closest to comparing the two is post #68 Once saved always saved. It was not indepth. There has to be a given that falling away results from abusing grace given to us.
What we are judged on will be based on whom you placed your faith on.
God will use perfection as the standard. God demands that you are to be perfect.
How that is accomplished is what seperates those from living with God eternally and those being doomed to hell forever. It's based on the correct belief of Jesus.... who he is, what he did, and the belief that what he did for me was enough to satisfied Gods demand....
Interestingly both groups of people will ask Jesus the same question about their deeds........ Matthew 25:37
"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
Matthew 25:44
"They (the unrighteous) also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
The unrighteous will even point out their deeds.....while the righteous does not.
Neither group can stand on merit based on their deeds. Then what makes one righteous and have eternal life and the other not?
Romans 1:17 "For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live byfaith."
Because of faith not works, God credits us Jesus' perfection to us, by grace.
Last edited by twin.spin; 05-22-2008 at 09:32 PM..
Reason: added thought
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