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Aaron,
There are really only two basic differences between religions (as you may know) they are
1. I have to contribute something
2. The triune God [Jesus] has done it all.
You are correct in about the just about every religion. All religions except Christianity requires something more than faith from their believers.
as far as i have seen, yes, christianity is the one that solely rests their case in the faith that their creator will save them, or exalt them, or transcend them (i'm sure there's a better way to use that verb, but i'm ok with this one at the moment), etc. but that is not the only criteria used to compare religions.
as in the case of commonalities between mainstream christianity and mormonism, for instance:
both believe in the 6-day creation/one day of rest as recorded by moses
both believe in moses, and the fact that he was a prophet
both believe in prophets, servants authorized, and given revelation to speak for God
both believe in revelation, the communication between God and mortal man
there are four right there (and i chained them, for fun. no other reason). that is just the first four that came to my head over the period of time that it took me to type them in. i'm sure that i could come up with more. i'm sure that you could too.
now, take that and add in similarities that are found in an even broader group, and you will find that the majority of the religions on earth have quite a bit. ever wonder why the atheists are talking about similarities between christianity, judaism, paganism, zoroastrianism, etc, etc? they have much in common.
as far as i have seen, yes, christianity is the one that solely rests their case in the faith that their creator will save them, or exalt them, or transcend them (i'm sure there's a better way to use that verb, but i'm ok with this one at the moment), etc. but that is not the only criteria used to compare religions.
as in the case of commonalities between mainstream christianity and mormonism, for instance:
both believe in the 6-day creation/one day of rest as recorded by moses
both believe in moses, and the fact that he was a prophet
both believe in prophets, servants authorized, and given revelation to speak for God
both believe in revelation, the communication between God and mortal man
there are four right there (and i chained them, for fun. no other reason). that is just the first four that came to my head over the period of time that it took me to type them in. i'm sure that i could come up with more. i'm sure that you could too.
now, take that and add in similarities that are found in an even broader group, and you will find that the majority of the religions on earth have quite a bit. ever wonder why the atheists are talking about similarities between christianity, judaism, paganism, zoroastrianism, etc, etc? they have much in common.
Here's the problem again, stycotl: What GOD created the world in six days? The God of the Bible or the god of Mormonism (or other -isms)? Who is a prophet (one who speaks from God WITHOUT error which leaves out Joseph Smith) and how is one made a prophet? And again, communication between man and what God--the God of the Bible or the god of Mormonism who was once a man and is even now still an exalted man?
We are back to square one--using terms with different meanings. Would just one Mormon here admit to their own doctrines? Was the god of Mormonism once a MAN? Can a man achieve this same godhood? Does god dwell in yonder heavens where he continues to procreate with a mother god?
The god of Mormonism is not the God of Christianity. The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of Christianity.
Preterist, I am not sure what you hope to gain by insisting on a narrow definition of Christians. Historically, there has been a lot of variety in Christian belief and doctrine. Of course, the majority opinion went to great lengths to stamp out those it labeled heretics, but that was hardly to their credit.
Yes, there are significant differences in the beliefs of Mormons and mainline Christians. I didn't fully grasp the significance of the differences until I had left Mormonism.
However, there are also many beliefs held in common.
Regardless of God's origin or exact nature, both Mormons and mainline Christians believe he loves us individually and is concerned about our joys and sorrows. Regardless of Jesus' origin or exact nature, both Mormons and mainline Christians believe we can only be resurrected and exalted because of his death and resurrection. Regardless of differing opinions on exactly what else (if anything) is needed for salvation, both Mormons and mainline Christians strive to love their fellowmen and walk more closely with God.
I am not sure emphasizing the sizable differences over the sizable similarities is productive or helpful to anyone's spirituality.
not to mention the fact that you claimed that there is no similarity. i was merely showing you that you are wrong. there is a world of similarity, whether you want to open your eyes to the fact or not.
what this comes down to is that you do not personally approve of mormonism, and go out of your way to stress differences, despite the similarities. don't get me wrong. i am not--and the rest of my church is not--out seeking the approval of the mainsteam christian majority. if we were, we wouldn't need our own doctrine in the first place. but we aren't disowning you either. we consider other religions to be misguided, but with as much right, and deserving of as much respect as we. we were all created by the same Father, after all, regardless of race or religion. i am grateful that martin luther, among others, was there to listen to the Spirit, and to pave the way for the reformation, and later the restoration.
again, there is more that we have in common than there is in opposition. maybe a better use of your time would be to explore your own spirituality, and to actively participate in your community, rather than trying to prove how satanic and wrong other religions are. you lose influence and credence that way.
Momtofour,
You mention "narrow definition of Christians" like its a derogatory thing.
But Jesus says there is a narrow definition.......
Jesus said:
"For many are invited, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14
"Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." John 6:28-29
Notice what Jesus doesn't say.....this puts the definition of a Christian very narrowly. That question [John 6:28] is the foundation of all people of all faiths (even atheists)
The answer is the difference between faiths. A difference that has eternal consequences.
The loudest part of Jesus' answer is at the very end -> . <- [period] That's it, that is all that God [Heavenly Father] requires!
You might as well ask this of anyone, What do I [we] hope to gain?
"He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it." Titus 1:9
Momtofour,
You mention "narrow definition of Christians" like its a derogatory thing.
Yes, I do tend to think that narrowly defining Christianity is bad. In part this is because I know for me, declaring that others aren't Christians does not help my spirituality. I feel closer to the divine and more able to show God's love when I include instead of exclude others. I tend to think people are Christians if they say they are. I might think they've got things seriously wrong, but it's not my place or good for me or them for me to argue that they aren't Christians.
Also, because I have had a huge shift in my beliefs during my own life, I am wary of being overconfident that I have the answers or I have found the one true way. I have had relatives and friends discount my spiritual walk, and I have no desire to do that to someone else. Their walk with God isn't my business. It's between them and God. I am striving to be humble and teachable. I fail at this, often, but that's what I'm striving for, and labeling professing Christians as non-Christians doesn't help.
I also think aiming for inclusion is more in keeping with Jesus' overall message.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
But Jesus says there is a narrow definition.......
Jesus said:
"For many are invited, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:14
I'll be honest. This parable makes no sense to me. I'm still struggling to find an interpretation that doesn't make God seem like a mean, capricious person. It doesn't seem to fit with Jesus message of forgiveness and love at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14
"Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." John 6:28-29
Notice what Jesus doesn't say.....this puts the definition of a Christian very narrowly. That question [John 6:28] is the foundation of all people of all faiths (even atheists)
The answer is the difference between faiths. A difference that has eternal consequences.
The loudest part of Jesus' answer is at the very end -> . <- [period] That's it, that is all that God [Heavenly Father] requires!
You might as well ask this of anyone, What do I [we] hope to gain?
"He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it." Titus 1:9
Mormons do believe in the one God has sent, so that's not a very good scripture to use as the basis for excluding them. Granted, Mormons do require ordinances for salvation, and I can see arguing that those aren't necessary. But other Christians also require ordinances (baptism comes to mind).
well put momto4,if christianity was as cut and dried as some make it out to be there wouldnt be thousands of 'christian' denominations.it doesnt make sense to me that God would love his children and them condemn most of the people who have ever lived to eternal damnation including 80-90% of those who were professed 'christians'.i dont believe the 'gate' is nearly as narrow as some make it out to be.if believing that jesus died for us is all that is required then doing the 'extra stuff' some denominations require may not help you but there is no reason why they would hurt you either,that makes no sense.
it doesnt make sense to me that God would ........
i dont believe the 'gate' is............
if believing that jesus died for us is all that is required then ........,that makes no sense.
imbobbbb,
That's the formula for the 'thousands' (more like hundreds) of different 'Christian' denominations. God's Word does one of two things, either it changes you or you change it. Either you accept what it says, or fit it into your own reason or comfort zone. Ironically, when people don't believe what Gods Word says, they are perplexed about how many different denominations there are and end up questioning God. Like God had something to do with it.
Simply the difference between Christian and\or non-Christian denominations can be summed up in these passages:
1 Corinthians 1:18
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
1 Corinthians 1:21
"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."
1 Corinthians 1:23
"but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,"
1 Corinthians 1:25
"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength."
1 Corinthians 2:14
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."
It is not Gods fault that most people don't believe.....
Last edited by twin.spin; 05-20-2008 at 10:20 AM..
"Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." John 6:28-29
The loudest part of Jesus' answer is at the very end -> . <- [period] That's it, that is all that God [Heavenly Father] requires!
Hey Twin, if this is all it takes, then anyone and everyone that believes in Jesus as our savior is a Christian, regardless of denomination. And I definitely agree with it.
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