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View Poll Results: Did Paul continue keeping the laws of Moses till he died?
Yes 3 25.00%
No 9 75.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2014, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,173 posts, read 10,463,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Paul would have only kept the letter of the law to the extent of establishing a Schoolmaster. However, He would have broken that law for sure in following the Spirit of the Law. And in respect to the letter, it was done away with so only those things congruent to the Spirit of the Law that were in the letter would he have adhered to in establishing a schoolmaster.

Liars told lies about Jesus and all his disciples.

Liars were paid to lie against Stephen saying that Stephen spoke against the keeping of the laws of Moses, and against Jerusalem.


This is what took place because liars told lies about Stephen teaching people against the laws of God.



Murder of Stephen, Acts Chapter 7
51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him-- 53you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."
54When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
57At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.81And Saul was there, giving approval to his death.
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church at Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison


Not only did those liars accomplish the murder of Stephen, but through the lies, a great persecution broke out against the church.



Then Paul came to Jerusalem and it was told to him what was being said of him.


Acts 21


And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.




What I get from Christianity is people trying to prove the liars of Stephen were not liars, and the people telling lies about Paul were not liars.


I have what Jesus said himself.
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Old 11-11-2014, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 454,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post

I have what Jesus said himself.
Question: Since Jesus left no writings or recordings, where did you find what Jesus himself said?
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Old 11-11-2014, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,173 posts, read 10,463,936 times
Reputation: 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileo2 View Post
Question: Since Jesus left no writings or recordings, where did you find what Jesus himself said?

I believe the words attributed to him.


The words that are attributed to Jesus are written in a hidden language, all he ever says is in parables, every bit of what he says.

I know what he says is true, because I can find the hidden meaning in what he says.

People post any parable, and let them tell you, and I will come behind them and tell you what it really says.
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Old 11-12-2014, 06:42 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,047,648 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I believe the words attributed to him.


The words that are attributed to Jesus are written in a hidden language, all he ever says is in parables, every bit of what he says.

I know what he says is true, because I can find the hidden meaning in what he says.

People post any parable, and let them tell you, and I will come behind them and tell you what it really says.
The Rich man and Lazerus?...
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:09 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,977,818 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I always just want to talk about the appointed visitation days of Christ, and what those days promise to believers.

There are 7 days of Christ, the first is no more Holy than the last, but the last Holy day pertains the greatest promise, Christians do not know of this promise.

It is as if Christians have one Holy day, and they leave of the rest, but most Christians even turn away from Passover, they would speak of a Passover lamb being Jesus, and then turn around and say,'' Don't keep the Lord's Passover, it is the law.''


I am always faced with a mentality that was somehow taken from the words of a Jew who kept the law till the day he died.


Paul went and bought animals, ANIMALS.

He bought his own sacrifice, BLOOD SACRIFICES.

Paul came to the non believing Priests in Judaism, and he shows them to be HIS AUTHORITY.

Time and time again, Jesus, and all his disciples PROVED that their authority were the non believing priests in Judaism.

Jesus healed people and said,'' Go show yourself to the priests.''


Paul was taken from court to court trying to prove his innocence because of liars who told rumors that Paul was doing violence to the laws of Moses and even speaking against the Temple and Jerusalem.




Paul's friends come up and tell Paul that everyone was telling false rumors and lies saying that Paul was teaching people not to keep the laws of Moses.

So Paul has to go out of his way to prove these liars wrong.





So how am I always met with Christian mentalities that speak violence against the keeping of God's commandments?


After Jesus said what he said,''' Whoever keeps the laws and teachers others to keep the laws will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.''




If I agree with Jesus or Paul, I am met with hostility from mentalities speaking against the commandments of God.


If the result of the coming of Jesus teaches people not to keep the commandments of God, then how is Jesus not the anti-Christ?

The antichrist like Antiochus Epiphanies came to change the times and seasons so nobody would know the visitation days of God, and has this been accomplished?

Has the spirit come to turn even the followers of Jesus away from knowing the visitation days of Jesus?


Are you a Christian?


Do you know that Shemini Atzaereth is an appointed visitation day of Christ, and that the people who pray and prepare for Shemini Atzereth will be given power like they are angels?


Has the spirit of Antichrist changed the times and seasons so that even the followers of Jesus do not know the simple 7 days of Jesus?

IT IS YOUR WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Did Paul continue to keep the laws of Moses till he died?


The answer is,'' Yes.''



So when I am faced with people who have a mentality against keeping the laws of Moses, this mentality is coming from a JEW WHO KEPT THE LAW TILL HE DIED.


Every time somebody disrespects the laws of God trying to make the keeping of the laws a trivial thing, they are directly going against what Paul said and did, they are directly going against what Jesus said and did.


If Paul has said something that gives you a mentality that is against the keeping of the commandments of God, then Paul is directly contradicting what Jesus said of the law.


If your understanding leads you to choose between what you think Paul said, and what Jesus said, why would you choose Paul over Jesus?

If Jesus has said that keeping the laws of Moses and teaching others to keep the laws of Moses, how hard is this to understand?


Why can't we just believe Jesus?


I wonder how anyone can willingly choose to show Jesus in error.


The anti-law mentality comes from misunderstanding the words of Paul.

No matter what a person reads from Paul, Paul was a Jew who never stopped keeping the laws of Moses.

Consider this.


You want to speak against the keeping of the commandments of God using the words of a man who never stopped keeping the commandments of God.

Is Paul a two faced liar who only proved he kept the law so that he wasn't killed as a sinner who deserved to be Killed?


If Jesus, Stephen, or Paul went and taught the children of Israel not to worry about keeping the commandments of God, then all 3 of them would be deserving death.

If any of them spoke against God's commandments, then nothing has happened other than sinners dying by the law, and deserving that death.

But did Jesus really come to abolish the law?

No

But did Paul come teaching Jews not to keep the law?

NO.


But if you think that the result of Christianity achieved the abolishment of keeping the commandments, then what you are trying to prove is that Jesus came to do what you are saying.

Was Jesus a sinner deserving death, was his murder justified?


If Jesus came making a new religion where his followers were taught not to keep the laws of Moses, then Jesus deserved death BY THE LAW.

Jesus kept the law, he did not come breaking the law as people suggest.


But the misunderstood words of Paul are used to speak against the keeping of the commandments, and THIS from a Jew who never stopped keeping the commandments of God.


So why use the words of Paul to speak against the keeping of the law, when in fact, Paul never stopped keeping the law?

It is a contradiction unto itself.

If Paul proved that he never stopped keeping the laws of Moses, will you give me misunderstandings to show that Paul was a contradiction to himself when he continued to keep the law?
Paul said to the nations, since he was the apostle of the nations, that we are not under law (the law of Moses) but under grace.

Oh, and please read Paul's epistle to the Galatians. It is all about correcting the Galatians when some from the circumcision came to them to get them to do the law. Paul told them that all who are under the law are under a curse.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,034,427 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Liars told lies about Jesus and all his disciples.

Liars were paid to lie against Stephen saying that Stephen spoke against the keeping of the laws of Moses, and against Jerusalem.


This is what took place because liars told lies about Stephen teaching people against the laws of God.



Murder of Stephen, Acts Chapter 7
51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him-- 53you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."
54When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
57At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.81And Saul was there, giving approval to his death.
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church at Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison


Not only did those liars accomplish the murder of Stephen, but through the lies, a great persecution broke out against the church.



Then Paul came to Jerusalem and it was told to him what was being said of him.


Acts 21


And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.




What I get from Christianity is people trying to prove the liars of Stephen were not liars, and the people telling lies about Paul were not liars.


I have what Jesus said himself.
I'll give you another way to think about the law.

I'm going to use the example of the Speed Limit. At some point in time before there was speed limits the community law makers got together and decided they needed to REDUCE INJURY AND DEATH on the Highways. This was the SPIRIT of the LAW. To establish this spirit they required the governed to OBEY ESTABLISHED SPEED LIMITS - this is the LETTER of the LAW.

So let's recap:

Spirit of the law = to Reduce Injury and Death on the Highways.
Letter of the law = Obey established speed limits.

Now consider a family out on the interstate and a flatbed truck carrying tires sudden hits a bump and one of the tires falls of the truck and begins rolling diagnally towards the family. The driver in the car realizes that if they slam on their breaks to avoid the tire rolling towards their lane that the car behind them will not have enough time to stop and will rear end them. However, if they speed up quickly (over the speed limit) the tire will pass between both cars and nobody will be injured which is decision the driver makes.

Now the Driver of the car would be GUILTY according to the LETTER of the Law but INNOCENT by the SPIRIT of the Law since they reduced injury and death on the highway.

This was the problem with the LETTER of the LAW and why it was abolished. Because if you went by the letter you unjustly punished the innocent.

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,173 posts, read 10,463,936 times
Reputation: 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Written by a person who kept the letter of the law.


The only thing that has changed, is that there is forgiveness instead of death, it does not take away the trying.

But if Paul shows himself to be keeping the letter of the law in order to save his life in Acts 21, then what you give me elsewhere is also from a person who kept the letter of the law, and if this person is a two faced cowardly liar, then I have no use for any of his words.

If what Paul says, contradicts what Jesus said, then there is a problem.

Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law, and if his coming has truly abolished the keeping of the law, then what Jesus said, was a lie.


Jesus talked about keeping even the least of the commandments, am I to believe what Jesus said?
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,034,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Written by a person who kept the letter of the law.


The only thing that has changed, is that there is forgiveness instead of death, it does not take away the trying.

But if Paul shows himself to be keeping the letter of the law in order to save his life in Acts 21, then what you give me elsewhere is also from a person who kept the letter of the law, and if this person is a two faced cowardly liar, then I have no use for any of his words.

If what Paul says, contradicts what Jesus said, then there is a problem.

Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law, and if his coming has truly abolished the keeping of the law, then what Jesus said, was a lie.


Jesus talked about keeping even the least of the commandments, am I to believe what Jesus said?
Jesus didn't abolish the law - He made it more replete. But he did abolish the letter of the Law which was NEVER the law but was given to teach you of the actual Law.

Jesus and Paul are in complete agreement and both didn't follow the Letter of the Law except to use it as a schoolmaster.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:58 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,173 posts, read 10,463,936 times
Reputation: 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Jesus didn't abolish the law - He made it more replete. But he did abolish the letter of the Law which was NEVER the law but was given to teach you of the actual Law.

Jesus and Paul are in complete agreement and both didn't follow the Letter of the Law except to use it as a schoolmaster.
Paul followed the lertter of the law, Jesus followed the letter of the law.

All the Pharisees who believed, followed the letter of the law.

The letter of the law demands sacrifice, did Paul make sacrifices after he believed?

Yes.

The letter of the law requires circumcision pertaining to the comings and goings of the Temple, did Paul take a young man and have him circumcised by the letter of the law to show that he kept the letter of the law?

Yes.

Did the disciples start eating unclean meat?

No.

The Christian Jews who believed, kept the letter of the law.

Jews were never once given a pass not to keep the letter of the law.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,034,427 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Paul followed the lertter of the law, Jesus followed the letter of the law.

All the Pharisees who believed, followed the letter of the law.

The letter of the law demands sacrifice, did Paul make sacrifices after he believed?

Yes.

The letter of the law requires circumcision pertaining to the comings and goings of the Temple, did Paul take a young man and have him circumcised by the letter of the law to show that he kept the letter of the law?

Yes.

Did the disciples start eating unclean meat?

No.

The Christian Jews who believed, kept the letter of the law.

Jews were never once given a pass not to keep the letter of the law.
Then why does the Letter KILL?



2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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