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I always just want to talk about the appointed visitation days of Christ, and what those days promise to believers.
There are 7 days of Christ, the first is no more Holy than the last, but the last Holy day pertains the greatest promise, Christians do not know of this promise.
It is as if Christians have one Holy day, and they leave of the rest, but most Christians even turn away from Passover, they would speak of a Passover lamb being Jesus, and then turn around and say,'' Don't keep the Lord's Passover, it is the law.''
I am always faced with a mentality that was somehow taken from the words of a Jew who kept the law till the day he died.
Paul went and bought animals, ANIMALS.
He bought his own sacrifice, BLOOD SACRIFICES.
Paul came to the non believing Priests in Judaism, and he shows them to be HIS AUTHORITY.
Time and time again, Jesus, and all his disciples PROVED that their authority were the non believing priests in Judaism.
Jesus healed people and said,'' Go show yourself to the priests.''
Paul was taken from court to court trying to prove his innocence because of liars who told rumors that Paul was doing violence to the laws of Moses and even speaking against the Temple and Jerusalem.
Paul's friends come up and tell Paul that everyone was telling false rumors and lies saying that Paul was teaching people not to keep the laws of Moses.
So Paul has to go out of his way to prove these liars wrong.
So how am I always met with Christian mentalities that speak violence against the keeping of God's commandments?
After Jesus said what he said,''' Whoever keeps the laws and teachers others to keep the laws will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.''
If I agree with Jesus or Paul, I am met with hostility from mentalities speaking against the commandments of God.
If the result of the coming of Jesus teaches people not to keep the commandments of God, then how is Jesus not the anti-Christ?
The antichrist like Antiochus Epiphanies came to change the times and seasons so nobody would know the visitation days of God, and has this been accomplished?
Has the spirit come to turn even the followers of Jesus away from knowing the visitation days of Jesus?
Are you a Christian?
Do you know that Shemini Atzaereth is an appointed visitation day of Christ, and that the people who pray and prepare for Shemini Atzereth will be given power like they are angels?
Has the spirit of Antichrist changed the times and seasons so that even the followers of Jesus do not know the simple 7 days of Jesus?
IT IS YOUR WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did Paul continue to keep the laws of Moses till he died?
The answer is,'' Yes.''
So when I am faced with people who have a mentality against keeping the laws of Moses, this mentality is coming from a JEW WHO KEPT THE LAW TILL HE DIED.
Every time somebody disrespects the laws of God trying to make the keeping of the laws a trivial thing, they are directly going against what Paul said and did, they are directly going against what Jesus said and did.
If Paul has said something that gives you a mentality that is against the keeping of the commandments of God, then Paul is directly contradicting what Jesus said of the law.
If your understanding leads you to choose between what you think Paul said, and what Jesus said, why would you choose Paul over Jesus?
If Jesus has said that keeping the laws of Moses and teaching others to keep the laws of Moses, how hard is this to understand?
Why can't we just believe Jesus?
I wonder how anyone can willingly choose to show Jesus in error.
The anti-law mentality comes from misunderstanding the words of Paul.
No matter what a person reads from Paul, Paul was a Jew who never stopped keeping the laws of Moses.
Consider this.
You want to speak against the keeping of the commandments of God using the words of a man who never stopped keeping the commandments of God.
Is Paul a two faced liar who only proved he kept the law so that he wasn't killed as a sinner who deserved to be Killed?
If Jesus, Stephen, or Paul went and taught the children of Israel not to worry about keeping the commandments of God, then all 3 of them would be deserving death.
If any of them spoke against God's commandments, then nothing has happened other than sinners dying by the law, and deserving that death.
But did Jesus really come to abolish the law?
No
But did Paul come teaching Jews not to keep the law?
NO.
But if you think that the result of Christianity achieved the abolishment of keeping the commandments, then what you are trying to prove is that Jesus came to do what you are saying.
Was Jesus a sinner deserving death, was his murder justified?
If Jesus came making a new religion where his followers were taught not to keep the laws of Moses, then Jesus deserved death BY THE LAW.
Jesus kept the law, he did not come breaking the law as people suggest.
But the misunderstood words of Paul are used to speak against the keeping of the commandments, and THIS from a Jew who never stopped keeping the commandments of God.
So why use the words of Paul to speak against the keeping of the law, when in fact, Paul never stopped keeping the law?
It is a contradiction unto itself.
If Paul proved that he never stopped keeping the laws of Moses, will you give me misunderstandings to show that Paul was a contradiction to himself when he continued to keep the law?
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; Today at 02:40 AM..
Yes Paul told them to not have faith in the Sabbath day , and not to eat meat sacrificed to God , and not to be circumcised for salvation , as two of these come from Moses and the circumcision came though Abraham and Isaac covenant with God
I am circumcised, and this through logic and reason.
My Mother had me circumcised and I am not a Jew, do I have to follow the law now, or did it make common sense for my mother to circumcise me?
My mother had me circumcised because she believed in Jesus, was she wrong to do so?
Paul took a man and had him circumcised, but it would not make sense to circumcise all grown gentile men, men shouldn't have to be circumcised if they are full grown and it wasn't done at birth, but shouldn't a child be circumcised on the eighth day of birth?
I say,'' YES.''
I had both my sons circumcised out of logic, out of reason, and because of my faith, not that a circumcision would have any effect on my son's soul, and this is what was being debated.
Circumcision was not being debated, the reasons for circumcisions were being debated.
Paul found reason to have his own fellow circumcised well into his life.
Eating meat sacrificed to animals meant that you had to know the market owner wasn't a pagan who sold half the meat to support him, and delivered half the meat or earnings of the meat to support the worship of other Gods.
When I walk into a walmart, I feel a bit of creepiness because I know that my money will be used to support religions that I don't believe in.
Can anyone buy or sell anything save they are dealing with people who support Paganism?
Hannibal, in my opinion you are the theological equivalent of Dan McClelland, who I think is the smartest scholar of the Bible in here. I don't comment on your posts because frankly my intellect is not up to your level theologically and of course we are on different tracks belief-wise, but I respect your views and just wish I had the ability to add some insights of my own.
I had a mental picture the other day when I was writing my last post on the believers blood thirsty heritage thread, and I felt it was relevant to the concept of ‘law versus original intent’, but didn’t post it at that time.
The picture is two lines starting from a point,going outwards radially, like spokes of a wheel. There is roughly an angle of 30 degrees between the 2 lines. One line is straight – that’s God’s line. The other line is mankind’s line, which starts at the same point with God, but is obviously going in a different direction, over time. Man’s line deviates jaggedly back to God’s line at specific points, but at the point where it intersects God’s line, it continues on again, parallel to the original direction of man’s line. At the point when Jesus came, there was a shift back to God’s line, but again, man’s line went off on its own direction again.
The picture applied to food and blood sacrifice, in relation to Genesis 1:29-31 29 And God said, See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the land and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to all the animals on the earth and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the ground—to everything in which there is the breath of life—I have given every green plant for food. And it was so.
Effectively, God’s original intent for us was to be vegetarians. Man’s deviation away from God has brought all the blood sacrifice system and meat eating, and hence dietary law. Jesus had to keep it all because He came and lived ‘on the line’ that mankind was on.
Hannibal, in my opinion you are the theological equivalent of Dan McClelland, who I think is the smartest scholar of the Bible in here. I don't comment on your posts because frankly my intellect is not up to your level theologically and of course we are on different tracks belief-wise, but I respect your views and just wish I had the ability to add some insights of my own.
Keep up the good work.
Wow, That is the best Post I got in here!
Thanks, but most Christians think I am pretty loony
I am after all, way out there in left field, what I say is too esoteric, I am usually just speaking to myself, I don't really suspect anyone reads my long ramblings.
I had a mental picture the other day when I was writing my last post on the believers blood thirsty heritage thread, and I felt it was relevant to the concept of ‘law versus original intent’, but didn’t post it at that time.
The picture is two lines starting from a point,going outwards radially, like spokes of a wheel. There is roughly an angle of 30 degrees between the 2 lines. One line is straight – that’s God’s line. The other line is mankind’s line, which starts at the same point with God, but is obviously going in a different direction, over time. Man’s line deviates jaggedly back to God’s line at specific points, but at the point where it intersects God’s line, it continues on again, parallel to the original direction of man’s line. At the point when Jesus came, there was a shift back to God’s line, but again, man’s line went off on its own direction again.
The picture applied to food and blood sacrifice, in relation to Genesis 1:29-31 29 And God said, See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the land and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to all the animals on the earth and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the ground—to everything in which there is the breath of life—I have given every green plant for food. And it was so.
Effectively, God’s original intent for us was to be vegetarians. Man’s deviation away from God has brought all the blood sacrifice system and meat eating, and hence dietary law. Jesus had to keep it all because He came and lived ‘on the line’ that mankind was on.
I think you may be on to something, I have a similar view of two paths like that, one begins on the right, and one begins on the left, and they meet in the middle.
As far as being vegetarian, I believe in Evolution, I also believe in creation, but I believe the bible teaches evolution.
The point at which humans began to eat meat, is the same point that man began to understand{my opinion}
That it was the eating of meat that made mankind aware, it was the protein that changed him, I think.
I watch a lot of those shows about how man evolved, and the scientists say that it was when man began to eat meat that he became aware.
Jesus said to keep the law. He did not say to keep the law of Moses. The law of Moses as they called it was what the Pharisees kept and Jesus did not approve of. Many misunderstand what the law is. It is for the servant and son of God to know His secrets.
As it is written;
Psalm 19:7 NRS
The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the decrees of the Lord are sure, making wise the simple;
Psalm 119:1 NRS
Happy are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the Lord.
Psalm 119:142 NRS
Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your law is the truth.
Jesus said to keep the law. He did not say to keep the law of Moses. The law of Moses as they called it was what the Pharisees kept and Jesus did not approve of. Many misunderstand what the law is. It is for the servant and son of God to know His secrets.
As it is written;
Psalm 19:7 NRS
The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the decrees of the Lord are sure, making wise the simple;
Psalm 119:1 NRS
Happy are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the Lord.
Psalm 119:142 NRS
Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your law is the truth.
Father, your word is truth.
Paul never stopped being a Pharisee, and neither did the tens of thousands of Pharisees who believed.
Jesus, Paul, and the disciples proved the Pharisees still sat in authority and they submitted to their authority time after time, after time.
Decades after Jesus died, Paul was submitting himself under their authority MAKING BLOOD SACRIFICES, CIRCUMCISING PEOPLE and Jesus himself told us that we should do whatever those authorities told us to do.
Paul says, I AM A PHARISEE.
Converts of the sect of Judaism called,'' Christianity,'' did not Leave Judaism for 100 years after Jesus died.
You say that Jesus was not speaking of the law of Moses?
How is this true when Jesus goes out of his way to SPECIFICALLY SAY,'' The law and the prophets?''
He says he didn't come to abolish it, was he saying that he didn't come to abolish the old law, or the new law?
Let's be real, Jesus was speaking of the laws of Moses.
How could we continue a serious conversation without admitting this fact?
I always just want to talk about the appointed visitation days of Christ, and what those days promise to believers.
There are 7 days of Christ, the first is no more Holy than the last, but the last Holy day pertains the greatest promise, Christians do not know of this promise.
It is as if Christians have one Holy day, and they leave of the rest, but most Christians even turn away from Passover, they would speak of a Passover lamb being Jesus, and then turn around and say,'' Don't keep the Lord's Passover, it is the law.''
I am always faced with a mentality that was somehow taken from the words of a Jew who kept the law till the day he died.
Paul went and bought animals, ANIMALS.
He bought his own sacrifice, BLOOD SACRIFICES.
Paul came to the non believing Priests in Judaism, and he shows them to be HIS AUTHORITY.
Time and time again, Jesus, and all his disciples PROVED that their authority were the non believing priests in Judaism.
Jesus healed people and said,'' Go show yourself to the priests.''
Paul was taken from court to court trying to prove his innocence because of liars who told rumors that Paul was doing violence to the laws of Moses and even speaking against the Temple and Jerusalem.
Paul's friends come up and tell Paul that everyone was telling false rumors and lies saying that Paul was teaching people not to keep the laws of Moses.
So Paul has to go out of his way to prove these liars wrong.
So how am I always met with Christian mentalities that speak violence against the keeping of God's commandments?
After Jesus said what he said,''' Whoever keeps the laws and teachers others to keep the laws will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.''
If I agree with Jesus or Paul, I am met with hostility from mentalities speaking against the commandments of God.
If the result of the coming of Jesus teaches people not to keep the commandments of God, then how is Jesus not the anti-Christ?
The antichrist like Antiochus Epiphanies came to change the times and seasons so nobody would know the visitation days of God, and has this been accomplished?
Has the spirit come to turn even the followers of Jesus away from knowing the visitation days of Jesus?
Are you a Christian?
Do you know that Shemini Atzaereth is an appointed visitation day of Christ, and that the people who pray and prepare for Shemini Atzereth will be given power like they are angels?
Has the spirit of Antichrist changed the times and seasons so that even the followers of Jesus do not know the simple 7 days of Jesus?
IT IS YOUR WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did Paul continue to keep the laws of Moses till he died?
The answer is,'' Yes.''
So when I am faced with people who have a mentality against keeping the laws of Moses, this mentality is coming from a JEW WHO KEPT THE LAW TILL HE DIED.
Every time somebody disrespects the laws of God trying to make the keeping of the laws a trivial thing, they are directly going against what Paul said and did, they are directly going against what Jesus said and did.
If Paul has said something that gives you a mentality that is against the keeping of the commandments of God, then Paul is directly contradicting what Jesus said of the law.
If your understanding leads you to choose between what you think Paul said, and what Jesus said, why would you choose Paul over Jesus?
If Jesus has said that keeping the laws of Moses and teaching others to keep the laws of Moses, how hard is this to understand?
Why can't we just believe Jesus?
I wonder how anyone can willingly choose to show Jesus in error.
The anti-law mentality comes from misunderstanding the words of Paul.
No matter what a person reads from Paul, Paul was a Jew who never stopped keeping the laws of Moses.
Consider this.
You want to speak against the keeping of the commandments of God using the words of a man who never stopped keeping the commandments of God.
Is Paul a two faced liar who only proved he kept the law so that he wasn't killed as a sinner who deserved to be Killed?
If Jesus, Stephen, or Paul went and taught the children of Israel not to worry about keeping the commandments of God, then all 3 of them would be deserving death.
If any of them spoke against God's commandments, then nothing has happened other than sinners dying by the law, and deserving that death.
But did Jesus really come to abolish the law?
No
But did Paul come teaching Jews not to keep the law?
NO.
But if you think that the result of Christianity achieved the abolishment of keeping the commandments, then what you are trying to prove is that Jesus came to do what you are saying.
Was Jesus a sinner deserving death, was his murder justified?
If Jesus came making a new religion where his followers were taught not to keep the laws of Moses, then Jesus deserved death BY THE LAW.
Jesus kept the law, he did not come breaking the law as people suggest.
But the misunderstood words of Paul are used to speak against the keeping of the commandments, and THIS from a Jew who never stopped keeping the commandments of God.
So why use the words of Paul to speak against the keeping of the law, when in fact, Paul never stopped keeping the law?
It is a contradiction unto itself.
If Paul proved that he never stopped keeping the laws of Moses, will you give me misunderstandings to show that Paul was a contradiction to himself when he continued to keep the law?
Paul would have only kept the letter of the law to the extent of establishing a Schoolmaster. However, He would have broken that law for sure in following the Spirit of the Law. And in respect to the letter, it was done away with so only those things congruent to the Spirit of the Law that were in the letter would he have adhered to in establishing a schoolmaster.
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