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This is a good clarification. When people say the Bible is the infallible Word of God, they are not necessarily saying that every exact translation of every word is infallible. That is not logical. What they are saying is that as a whole, nothing has been altered from the original manuscripts and that God said exactly what He meant to say in those manuscripts. Any minor variations can be analyzed and accounted for.
Some of the widely known manuscripts which are used comparatively to eliminate scribal errors and verify the accuracy of the Word of God:
Septuagint, or LXX,
Masoretic Text,
Allepo Codex,
Freer Greek Manuscript V,
Origen's Hexapla,
Codex Leningradensis,
Chester Beatty Papyrus II,
John Rylands Manuscript,
Codex Vaticanus,
Codex Sinaiticus,
Codex Washingtonianus,
Bodmer Papyri and Bodmer Papyri II,
Codex Alexandrinus,
Codex Ephraemi,
Oxyrhynchus Papyri,
Itala Version,
Wurzburg Palimpsest Codex
Lyons Codex,
Jerome's Vulgate,
There is a huge OT problem with the book of Jeremiah. The earliest works, which we now have thanks to the Qumran archaeological discoveries, are much shorter than what is found in the English text in ALL our current translations. In fact, it appears to be a Palestinian reworking of Jeremiah to ADD information--particularly prophetic information--AFTER THE FACT. The Septuagint version of Jeremiah was the earliest we had until the Qumran discoveries in the mid-twentieth century.
Now you are not going to accept any of this because your heart is hardened to the truth, and your spiritual life certainly appears to rest on the corrupted pages of the current Bible rather than on the spiritual revelation of Christ in your heart. You MUST fight against learning the truth because if you did you would have nothing but faith on which to rely.
Fundamentalists are simply forced to ignore the truth about the Bible because that is what their faith is founded upon--not the Son of God who stated to a group of Pharisees, "You study the Scriptures because in them you think you have found salvation. They point to me whom you have rejected."
Fundamentalists peruse scripture constantly, memorizing many verses by heart without learning the heart in the scripture. Here is a short quote and a source so that you can read the entire article.
Quote:
Even without the discovery of the Jeremiah scroll at Qumran, the variations between the Septuagint version of Jeremiah and the Masoretic text posed problems that Bible inerrantists should have addressed long ago. The New Testament writers, who were presumably guided by the Holy Spirit in what they wrote, frequently quoted the Septuagint translation when citing Old Testament scriptures. If these writers were indeed guided by the Holy Spirit as they composed the New Testament, one would assume that their use of the Septuagint for scripture references was done not only by the approval of the Holy Spirit but by his explicit direction. To say the least, then, this would appear to put a stamp of divine approval on the Septuagint Bible.Why then have Bible inerrantists said little or nothing about the variations between the divinely approved Septuagint version of Jeremiah and the longer, differently organized version in the Bibles that they preach their sermons from? Surely this was an incongruity important enough to warrant an explanation.
The reliance of New Testament writers on the Septuagint scriptures poses still another problem that goes far beyond variations in the Jeremiah text. That problem concerns the quality of the Septuagint translation in general. The discovery of the Qumran text of Jeremiah may have quelled notions that
variations from the masoretic text in the Septuagint version of Jeremiah were primarily due to poor translation, but scholars nevertheless agree that many sections of the Septuagint were carelessly translated. My own copy of the Septuagint says this in the introduction:
The variety of the translators is proved by the unequal character of the version: some books show that the translators were by no means competent to the task, while others, on the contrary, exhibit on the whole a careful translation. The Pentateuch is considered to be the part the best executed, while the book of Isaiah appears to be the very worst, (The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament, Zondervan Publishing House: 1970, p. iii).
The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary gives a similar assessment of translation accuracy in the Septuagint: Examination of the text, however, indicates a combination of numerous versions both literal and free and marked by considerable variance in style, interpretation of the Hebrew, and even order and contents; the latter suggests a variety of underlying Hebrew texts. The Greek-speaking authors of the New Testament quoted from the LXX (Septuagint) rather than the Hebrew text, and the LXX became their authoritative scriptures. Its use by Christians for proselytizing and in anti-Jewish polemics, as well as the growing Jewish dissatisfaction with the LXX for being too loose a translation and not based on the current authoritative text (it varied also from the order of the Hebrew canon), led to the more literal translations of Aquila (A. D. 130), Theodotion, and the Ebionite Christian Symmachus, (Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1987, p. 154, emphasis added).
In a later post, I will point out why GOD HIMSELF is not that interested in protecting His "Word." Why some jots and tittles HAVE passed away. And we'll use the book of popularized, edited book of Jeremiah to do it.
According to 2 Timothy 3:16, all scripture is God-breathed, meaning that God is the sole initiator, inspiration and driving force behind it. Therefore, either we believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, or our faith has no basis.
According to 2 Timothy 3:16, all scripture is God-breathed, meaning that God is the sole initiator, inspiration and driving force behind it. Therefore, either we believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, or our faith has no basis. No verses have yet been added or removed that change the meaning of the text; whether or not it falls under the purview of Deuteronomy 4:2 & 12:32 and Proverbs 30:6 is another matter entirely. I believe it does, but I also believe that if God has allowed it into the Word that He promises is God-breathed, there's a reason for that.
This phrase cannot be in reference to any thing Paul taught as it was not included with scriptures of the old testament . New testament writings were a secondary application LONG long after word.
I personally do not include Paul's teaching as gospel . Only Jesus teaching as gospel.
The two are very different.
And Paul condemns any other gospel than his own.
Paul must give account to God like every one else for his level of obedience through the Holy Spirit Mathew 7;21,22,23,
The bottom line still is not academic, it is the relationship,
If academic values were required for salvation, few if any would be accepted of God.
I have known little children with greater obedience to God via the Holy Spirit, than many long time, papered preachers.
Having and maintaining God's approval IS important and relevant, John 15; make no excuses deviating from this fact. Jesus requires FAITHFULNESS.
The proof of faithfulness is obedience
and the only way to be obedient real-time, is to be under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, Jesus provided to that end.
The only way to have the Holy Spirit is Jesus Lordship in ones life.
and that begins with REPENTING from SELF govern to GOD govern.
And that starts with wanting to love God.
First law of the ten commandments .
This phrase cannot be in reference to any thing Paul taught as it was not included with scriptures of the old testament . New testament writings were a secondary application LONG long after word.
I personally do not include Paul's teaching as gospel . Only Jesus teaching as gospel.
The two are very different.
And Paul condemns any other gospel than his own.
Paul must give account to God like every one else for his level of obedience through the Holy Spirit Mathew 7;21,22,23,
The bottom line still is not academic, it is the relationship,
If academic values were required for salvation, few if any would be accepted of God.
I have known little children with greater obedience to God via the Holy Spirit, than many long time, papered preachers.
Having and maintaining God's approval IS important and relevant, John 15; make no excuses deviating from this fact. Jesus requires FAITHFULNESS.
The proof of faithfulness is obedience
and the only way to be obedient real-time, is to be under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, Jesus provided to that end.
The only way to have the Holy Spirit is Jesus Lordship in ones life.
and that begins with REPENTING from SELF govern to GOD govern.
And that starts with wanting to love God.
First law of the ten commandments .
Hey Arleigh. Thanks for your contribution to the discussion here.
May I ask what you specifically have against the teachings of Paul and why you think they teach a gospel other than what Christ taught?
What I don't understand, is how you can claim to have faith that Christ was God. But then you gobble up speculation from people who don't hold the same belief about Christ and let it influence what you believe?
A belief that Christ was God is a huge leap of faith on your part... Many people will claim you are a fool for believing such a thing....
According to 2 Timothy 3:16, all scripture is God-breathed, meaning that God is the sole initiator, inspiration and driving force behind it. Therefore, either we believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, or our faith has no basis. No verses have yet been added or removed that change the meaning of the text; whether or not it falls under the purview of Deuteronomy 4:2 & 12:32 and Proverbs 30:6 is another matter entirely. I believe it does, but I also believe that if God has allowed it into the Word that He promises is God-breathed, there's a reason for that.
Paul is a Pharisee.
typically an egocentric and educated ,sot he basis of his understanding is in his knowledge not a personal relationship of obedience .
many of his events are his own and no witness, starting with his conversion, those with him saw nothing heard nothing, fell off the horse and went blind, and had serious vision problems later in life. likely sough christians for healing knowing they believed on God's healing in Jesus name.
There is no record of repenting nor to make atonement for his murderous rampage .
Jesus requires the forgiveness of men as well .
The disciples feared him and gave him space and he argued with the disciples showing his disrespect for their calling and responsibility . He elevated him self above them.
Right or wrong, Jesus put the gospel in their hand first .
Paul compromised the issue of circumcision and back peddled later on . He is not operating in God's instruction, but his own reasoning . His introduction of the idea of grace is contradicting of Jesus recognition of the significance of even our idle conversation and all our actions (works ) they all matter greatly to God . Jesus did not teach grace and never once hinted at grace either, IF you bother to read the things Jesus taught.
At one point Paul is putting down the law(Romans), and then not long later, is making laws of his own for the believer.
If you don't see a problem your blind as well.
If I go preaching the law was weak and then begin creating my own ,and he even admits some of the thins he recommends are his own. I supersede God and Jesus. Jesus provided the Holy spirit to teach in His place . not second or third hand either.
It is also recognized that he still had conflict with the disciples and young Timothy was caught up in Paul's teaching and the conflict. Paul even admits not teaching at places Jesus gospel had already been . the only reason I can see is that he knew there was a contrast in his message and it would lead to more trouble.
Paul refers to Timothy as his son in the faith , Jesus DIRECTLY addressed that issue NOT to be called father or master or teacher or rabbi. but Paul re instituted those titles against Jesus direct order.
Even the catholic church defies Jesus direct order to this day. Protestant church is no less guilty.
need I go on ?
Search the scriptures and learn what level God expects obedience .
From genesis to revelation . obedience IS works ,
but works as a result of obedience to God's instruction realtime.
Look closely at Jesus temptation in the wilderness .
Those things Jesus was dealing with satan's twist are much the same we see today.
Men using scriptures like a book of incantations attempting to manipulate God by them. not obedience to God.
the smartest thing the disciples asked Jesus was ,"teach us to pray"
Troubled times are usually what it takes for most folk to pray and that selfishly. But Jesus didn't teach selfishness he fought obedience and needing God's will, not our own.
A man that trusts God asks for God's will , a man that does not trust God is telling God how he want's things done.
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Lets stay in context
