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Balderdash. There is no "belief" that needs supporting. That's the whole point. You do realize that non-belief is different from belief, right?
The belief is that God does not exist and no being greater than themselves could possibly exist
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It should be obvious why "God did it" is not a scientific explanation. If "God" is a satisfactory answer to everything we don't understand, what's the point of scientific investigation at all?
It is obvious to me. And for most fields of science, you don't need to consider the possibility of God.
Obviously you cannot study something you cannot see.
But there are a number of fields which are being extremely presumptuous in attempting to understand our existence apart from the existence of God. And then proclaiming "It's true! (because its all we got)" and thinking "I don't know (how matter/energy came into existence)" is a viable alternative to God
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You have outed yourself as a scientific illiterate. Saying "God did it" is the cop-out of the ages; it's not an alternative explanation at all, but rather an admission of ignorance.
Unless "God did it", which would make Bible believers correct, not ignorant
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If God exists then we don't need science, since God already "explains" everything in the universe:
Why didn't my car start? God. Why did I get sick? God. Where do babies come from? God. Why is the sky blue? God. Why do cracks form in pavement? God. What causes lightning? God. What make an airplane fly? God. How is electricity generated? God...
This is untrue. Science can tell us everything about the physical universe. However, it cannot tell us why we are here. Or how the universe and man came into existence if God did create the universe and man. Maybe in the future science would be able to confirm the existence of God, but we do not currently possess the knowledge or technology necessary to do that.
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Ah, the "atheism is a fundamentalist religion" gambit. It's used all the time, but it's *******s. It's an attempt to draw a false equivalency between blind faith and [u]not accepting blind faith.
Atheism is a fundamentalist religion. It is a belief that there is no God, no matter what the evidence might suggest
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Atheism is a religion like not believing in Santa Claus is a religion.
Atheism is a religion like believing in God is a religion. Only Believers in God have more evidence to support their claim
What is the current "scientific" theory for the existence of the universe. Space, energy/matter, time and the various forces?
And,
What is the current theory for the existence of the same (as above) from believers in God?
Which one is more convincing based on the evidence and our current scientific knowledge?
The best answer, is not scientifically testable (at least not directly testable, but it is scientifically and logically more sound). Which is why it is rejected by the mainstream scientific community.
What is the current "scientific" theory for the existence of the universe. Space, energy/matter, time and the various forces?
And,
What is the current theory for the existence of the same (as above) from believers in God?
Which one is more convincing based on the evidence and our current scientific knowledge?
The best answer, is not scientifically testable (at least not directly testable, but it is scientifically and logically more sound). Which is why it is rejected by the mainstream scientific community.
You're floundering, son.
Why not grab the Lifesaver of Reason and read a few elementary school Science texts?
ETA: And the answer to your original question is "I don't know." And neither do you.
The belief is that God does not exist and no being greater than themselves could possibly exist
You should be careful when putting words in a person's mouth. There are plenty of beings much greater than myself: people like you, of course.
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Originally Posted by john233
It is obvious to me. And for most fields of science, you don't need to consider the possibility of God.
You need to consider the possibility of God in every field of science since God controls everything in the universe. For example, did you know that Gravity is actually the hand of God holding the universe together? Nobody knows what Gravity is, therefore we know that it is God.
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Originally Posted by john233
Obviously you cannot study something you cannot see.
We can study God. We know that God is responsible for everything in the universe that science cannot yet explain.
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Originally Posted by john233
But there are a number of fields which are being extremely presumptuous in attempting to understand our existence apart from the existence of God.
Agree. We know that there are certain things that science will never be able to explain. Therefore we know that God does those things.
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Originally Posted by john233
And then proclaiming "It's true! (because its all we got)" and thinking "I don't know (how matter/energy came into existence)" is a viable alternative to God
It isn't a viable alternative. It's always better to assume that God is the explanation for whatever we don't understand. That's how science progresses. If we see something impressive and mysterious like lightning, it's best to assume that God does it. Only atheists, who want to disprove the existence of God would try to come up with a naturalistic explanation for lightning.
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Originally Posted by john233
Unless "God did it", which would make Bible believers correct, not ignorant
Correct. Everything we don't understand is caused by the bible God. It couldn't possibly be caused by an obviously false God like Allah or Ahura Mazda. Obviously.
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Originally Posted by john233
This is untrue. Science can tell us everything about the physical universe. However, it cannot tell us why we are here. Or how the universe and man came into existence if God did create the universe and man.
We already know that God created the universe and man. There are things which science cannot explain yet, which proves that God (and obviously not Allah or Ahura Mazda) did those things.
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Originally Posted by john233
Maybe in the future science would be able to confirm the existence of God, but we do not currently possess the knowledge or technology necessary to do that.
Science has already confirmed the existence of God. Science cannot explain everything yet, which proves the existence of God. It also proves that the bible is God's Word somehow.
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Originally Posted by john233
Atheism is a fundamentalist religion. It is a belief that there is no God, no matter what the evidence might suggest
I know right? Those fundamentalist atheists won't acknowledge the gaps in scientific knowledge which prove the existence of God. What a bunch of ignorant people!
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Originally Posted by john233
Atheism is a religion like believing in God is a religion. Only Believers in God have more evidence to support their claim
I agree. Atheism is a religion. The more often someone repeats that phrase, the more likely it is to be true. Believers have a lot more evidence for their claim that God exists. Science can't even explain how a frisbee flies. Obviously it's God (and not Allah or Thor) holding the frisbee in the palm of his hand.
You go ahead and place your faith in the study of the physical universe.
I'll place my faith in God.
You mean the anonymous guys thousands of years ago who scribbled stories on pieces of parchment which - over hundreds of years - were collated and amalgamated by various editors and copywriters and decipherers and busybodies and politicians into what is now known as the the bible -- available in many versions -- depending on your particular perversion of belief.
If one's faith cannot exist with out Paul, his faith is vain, and in vain.
And the arguments will continue, preferring Paul's compromised gospel, to Jesus own gospel.
Matthew 7; 21,22,23, Jesus is judge, not Paul nor any other man.
And the judgment will be against those whom lie about Jesus lordship being in them, simply having done works in His name.
The law of the Father is real time ( not just the letter), via the tutelage go the Holy Spirit ,Jesus provides.
With out Whom the angels will not recognize.
God can and does supersede His previous instructions, Just as He did with Moses .
This is why real time obedience is what is expected , as per Jesus example ." I came not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent Me."
Out side the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, one is essentially in sin.
Self govern, not God govern.
Excellent points. Almost all fundamentalists quote Paul to the exclusion of Jesus. And when Jesus and Paul contradict one another an "explanation" is arrived at which in EVERY case removes the message of Jesus and glorifies Paul.
Fundamentalist religion is not Christianity as from Christ, but Pauline Christianity, one that does lip service to Jesus and avoids the demands He made on His followers.
The entire inerrancy thing so alive and well among fundamentalists arose in the latter part of the nineteenth century and received its first formulaic principles around 1920. While literalists abounded for centuries, they were in no way inerrantists.
Said before and now repeated here, inerrancy is not simply a claim about the nature of the Bible, but also a claim about our access to it — our ability to read the inerrant Bible inerrantly. Because if a fundamentalist can't read it inerrantly, then it means some crazy liberal might be, God forbid, CORRECT in his interpretation.
You go ahead and place your faith in the study of the physical universe.
I'll place my faith in God.
God made it and called it "good." Why wouldn't we take time to study it? All the evidence God has left us points toward evolution--and He gave us a brain to think and ponder. It is disrespect to the almighty to not use it.
Fundamentalists are at best babes taking milk (when they are flat out not anti-god) and stunting their growth by refusing to take the meat of the gospel. Grow up. Be a spiritual man. There is nothing we have discovered or will discover that denigrates God in anyway. In fact the theory of evolution is even MORE miraculous than that Genesis story.
You mean the anonymous guys thousands of years ago who scribbled stories on pieces of parchment which - over hundreds of years - were collated and amalgamated by various editors and copywriters and decipherers and busybodies and politicians into what is now known as the the bible -- available in many versions -- depending on your particular perversion of belief.
IT is a mystery how such obvious human fallibility and corruption could be so revered and believed as the infallible word of God. It boggles the mind. Why it persists is a testament to the inertia of human superstition and fear.
IT is a mystery how such obvious human fallibility and corruption could be so revered and believed as the infallible word of God. It boggles the mind. Why it persists is a testament to the inertia of human superstition and fear.
Or as a very, very drunk Catholic theologian once informed when I asked him how the Church of Rome had such power "Only a divine institution could survive the machinations of Satan.
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