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I don't believe many on here even read the article I posted. Sigh.
I did, and I can prove it. There's a typo. It says "tongue and cheek" instead of "tongue in cheek".
It was a good article. I think the problem arises when people believe there is power in the number of times a prayer is repeated. Then it's just superstition. That can happen if a person is told that saying a given prayer X number of times will gain them forgiveness.
The God is the same. However, the primitive men that lived BC saw gave God as jealous, cruel, and demanding. This are human flaws which God CANNOT HAVE.
perhaps it might be instructive to consider the story of the persistent widow and the unjust judge in Luke 18: 1-8 note that she was constantly getting on that poor guys case with one request apparently phrased the EXACT same way---"give me justice against my adversary!!!" and wouldn't you know it that REPEATED request (another word for "prayer" BTW) got what she wanted even from the sketchy judge---because she kept "bothering" him about that one thing the same way all the time.
if Jesus had no problem using that as an example of what we should do---being persistent in prayer, should we then be totally dismissive of those who IN FAITH AND SINCIRITY OF HEART do more or less the same thing with how they make their prayers?
remember, God already knows exactly what we need and we THINK we need already before we say it so actually anything we ask for is kind of a repetition (vain or otherwise) since no matter how we put it, the subject, the intent, the need is still the same and God certainly knows it, too and to avoid such things, should we never ask anything at all of God in any kind of prayer---or is God actually happy to hear us in whatever way and style we call out to Him from the heart and/or from the mouth just to show we are really serious about those prayerful needs and requests?
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 03-25-2015 at 12:20 PM..
Reason: more info.
Basically says we don't. Jesus said the same prayer over and over when He was in distress and the angels have been saying the same prayer for centuries to praise God.
I'm sorry....I just don't see in any of those proof texts that Staples quoted that we are to say repetitious prayers. Jesus certainly didn't teach it.
If you want to, and you can keep your heart and mind engaged in the prayer as you're reciting the prayer...good on ya. I'm all for it. But I don't find that it helps me, and I don't teach others to do so.
Actually---that is exactly my point. If you can pray that repetition from the heart? Knock yourself out.
Vizio:
It is like the difference between people of different cultures. What makes sense to you is strange to them and vice versa.
BTW, I know Sola Scriptura ministers improvise the prayers, but at some time some catchy phrases and words are used again. It would be impossible to say a new prayer each time that does not contain favorite phrases used in the past.
The Catholic Church is big on previously written and composed prayers.
The Prayer of Saint Francis, also known as Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace is a Christian prayer. Attributed to the thirteenth-century saint Francis of Assisi, the prayer in its present form cannot be traced back further than 1912, when it was printed in Paris in French, in a small spiritual magazine called La Clochette (The Little Bell), published by La Ligue de la Sainte-Messe (The Holy Mass League). The author's name was not given, although it may have been the founder of La Ligue, Fr. Esther Bouquerel.[citation needed]
Summarizing the Christian Renoux book on the prayer, an article by Egidio Picucci on the 19–20 January 2009 issue of L'Osservatore Romano says that the earliest record of the prayer is its appearance, as "a beautiful prayer to say during Mass" in the December 1912 number of the small devotional French publication La Clochette, "the bulletin of the League of the Holy Mass". In 1915, Marquis Stanislas de La Rochethulon, president of the Anglo-French association Souvenir Normand, which called itself "a work of peace and justice inspired by the testament of William the Conqueror, who is considered to be the ancestor of all the royal families of Europe", sent this prayer to Pope Benedict XV.
The Pope had an Italian translation published on the front page of L'Osservatore Romano of 20 January 1916. It appeared under the heading, "The prayer of Souvenir Normand for peace", and with the explanation: "Souvenir Normand has sent the Holy Father the text of some prayers for peace. We have pleasure in presenting in particular the prayer addressed to the Sacred Heart, inspired by the testament of William the Conqueror". On 28 January 1916, the French newspaper La Croix reprinted, in French, the Osservatore Romano article, with exactly the same heading and explanation. La Rochethulon wrote to the newspaper to clarify that it was not a prayer of Souvenir Normand, but he chose not to mention La Clochette, the first publication in which it had appeared. Because of its appearance on L'Osservatore Romano and La Croix as a prayer for peace during the First World War, this prayer then became widely known.[2]
Location: In Thy presence is fulness of joy... Psa 16:11
299 posts, read 264,596 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
OK, I read some of the article:
This stands out:
Psalm 136 repeats the words “for his steadfast love endures for ever” 26 times in 26 verses!
God is OK with a repetition as long as it comes from the heart.
If you understood the context of the Psalm, you'd understand its use better.
Half of Israel was to stand on one mountain, reading/repeating part of this Psalm; while the other half of Israel stood on a nearby mountain, reciting "for His mercy endureth for ever" back as a reply.
This was also done pronouncing the blessings and cursings of the law.
Side one: "Blessed shalt thou be in the country..."
Side two: "Cursed shalt thou be in the country..."
The effect it had was to underline the blessings of God to an obedient people.
Those who were not obedient were reminded of the awesome judgment of God if they did not repent.
This recitation of Psalm 136, etc. was not repeated endlessly for the forgiveness of sins; as saying 12 "Hail Mary's" and 12 "Our Father's" does.
The two are entirely different things for entirely different purposes.
Last edited by NT Fellowship; 03-25-2015 at 02:50 PM..
Reason: extra word
sorry, no. for Catholics, saying any prayers ("our Father" or "hail Mary" or anything else) doesn't effect or cause the forgiveness of sin. instead the sincere confession of sin to God (thru the ministry of the priest---"whose sins you shall forgive are forgiven...") and the "firm purpose of amendment ("repentance"/turning from sin) are the "true" cure for the disease. the prayers (SINCERELY prayed) are simply a symbolic penance reflecting that sorrow and repentance (like the parable of the sinful publican in the temple who repeatedly beat his breast and said "have mercy on me a sinner"). AND praise for the mercy and forgiveness of God another part of the sacrament that is often not mentioned is restitution---so that those who are harmed in some way by our sinful actions are made whole and this may be a condition for the full benefit of any confession made.
This recitation of Psalm 136, etc. was not repeated endlessly for the forgiveness of sins; as saying 12 "Hail Mary's" and 12 "Our Father's" does.
The two are entirely different things for entirely different purposes.
Quote:
Biblical examples of repetition are clear. The Psalms use a repeated phrase in the form of a chorus. (Eg. "His mercy endures forever."), but only between verses with varied phrases and thoughts. Sometimes, although rarely, the Scriptures repeat a phrase or a word, but no more than 3 times in a row. (Eg. "Holy, holy, holy.)
May our worship be worship that pleases the God whom we worship rather than worship that titillates the uninstructed and the pleasure-seekers.
I guess you stay away from psalm 23, the most often used psalm in Christianity.
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