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It is like the difference between people of different cultures. What makes sense to you is strange to them and vice versa.
BTW, I know Sola Scriptura ministers improvise the prayers, but at some time some catchy phrases and words are used again. It would be impossible to say a new prayer each time that does not contain favorite phrases used in the past.
I actually say the same prayer every week before we take a collection. I pray that as we continue our worship by our tithes and offerings, that he would use our offering to further his kingdom in our town, the community, and worldwide. It's intentional because I want the congregation to understand that giving of our money to God is worship -- and that it is how the lost will be reached.
Is that wrong? Only if I think that it's a magical chant that contains power in the words.
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The Catholic Church is big on previously written and composed prayers.
The Prayer of Saint Francis, also known as Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace is a Christian prayer. Attributed to the thirteenth-century saint Francis of Assisi, the prayer in its present form cannot be traced back further than 1912, when it was printed in Paris in French, in a small spiritual magazine called La Clochette (The Little Bell), published by La Ligue de la Sainte-Messe (The Holy Mass League). The author's name was not given, although it may have been the founder of La Ligue, Fr. Esther Bouquerel.[citation needed]
Summarizing the Christian Renoux book on the prayer, an article by Egidio Picucci on the 19–20 January 2009 issue of L'Osservatore Romano says that the earliest record of the prayer is its appearance, as "a beautiful prayer to say during Mass" in the December 1912 number of the small devotional French publication La Clochette, "the bulletin of the League of the Holy Mass". In 1915, Marquis Stanislas de La Rochethulon, president of the Anglo-French association Souvenir Normand, which called itself "a work of peace and justice inspired by the testament of William the Conqueror, who is considered to be the ancestor of all the royal families of Europe", sent this prayer to Pope Benedict XV.
The Pope had an Italian translation published on the front page of L'Osservatore Romano of 20 January 1916. It appeared under the heading, "The prayer of Souvenir Normand for peace", and with the explanation: "Souvenir Normand has sent the Holy Father the text of some prayers for peace. We have pleasure in presenting in particular the prayer addressed to the Sacred Heart, inspired by the testament of William the Conqueror". On 28 January 1916, the French newspaper La Croix reprinted, in French, the Osservatore Romano article, with exactly the same heading and explanation. La Rochethulon wrote to the newspaper to clarify that it was not a prayer of Souvenir Normand, but he chose not to mention La Clochette, the first publication in which it had appeared. Because of its appearance on L'Osservatore Romano and La Croix as a prayer for peace during the First World War, this prayer then became widely known.[2]
WIKI
As I said -- if you can pray those prayers and they are the desires in your heart, and it's you praying it....great. If instead you think that by simply reciting them you are manipulating God, as a sorcerer might manipulate the world around him by simply chanting a magical set of words....that is wrong.
Vizio. think no serious Catholic really think that the words of this or any other prayer are magic in any way---their usefulness is ONLY thru sincerity of heart and holiness of purpose.
Location: In Thy presence is fulness of joy... Psa 16:11
299 posts, read 264,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Vain Repetition
I guess you stay away from psalm 23, the most often used psalm in Christianity.
Don't bang too hard, Julian, you might hurt yourself!
Psalm 23 is not read repetitively. Not a good comparison.
And by the way, reading a Bible verse or psalm or set of verses as an expression of your heart is not "praying in repetition" -- it is what becomes mindless mantras that we -- and the Lord Jesus -- warn against.
BTW, Psalm 23 is an excellent study of the Lord Jesus Christ: Isa 40:11, John 10, Hebrews 13:20-21, etc.
I actually say the same prayer every week before we take a collection. I pray that as we continue our worship by our tithes and offerings, that he would use our offering to further his kingdom in our town, the community, and worldwide. It's intentional because I want the congregation to understand that giving of our money to God is worship -- and that it is how the lost will be reached.
I would say 99% of ministers say that because the church needs cash.
Quote:
Is that wrong? Only if I think that it's a magical chant that contains power in the words.
As I said -- if you can pray those prayers and they are the desires in your heart, and it's you praying it....great. If instead you think that by simply reciting them you are manipulating God, as a sorcerer might manipulate the world around him by simply chanting a magical set of words....that is wrong.
Don't bang too hard, Julian, you might hurt yourself!
Psalm 23 is not read repetitively. Not a good comparison.
And by the way, reading a Bible verse or psalm or set of verses as an expression of your heart is not "praying in repetition" -- it is what becomes mindless mantras that we -- and the Lord Jesus -- warn against.
BTW, Psalm 23 is an excellent study of the Lord Jesus Christ: Isa 40:11, John 10, Hebrews 13:20-21, etc.
What may sound like a vain repetition to you may be useful for someone else to get close to God. I think it is simply a different style, nothing more.
I would say 99% of ministers say that because the church needs cash.
Honestly...not my church. A good portion of my salary is paid for not by the church, but by a missionary agency. If the church paid nothing of my salary there would still be a church here. I have never stood and begged for money in my church. I did preach on giving 2 weeks ago--because that's what 1 Cor 16:1-4 was about. This past weekend I moved on to 1 Cor 16:5-24 and I did not preach on giving.
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OK, I agree
Why do Christians need to pray? Do you know?
God commands it. Why? Because ultimately it glorifies him. It's worship. When we pray to him we give him worship. We also draw closer to him--and it builds the relationship.
I actually say the same prayer every week before we take a collection. I pray that as we continue our worship by our tithes and offerings, that he would use our offering to further his kingdom in our town, the community, and worldwide. It's intentional because I want the congregation to understand that giving of our money to God is worship -- and that it is how the lost will be reached.
Is that wrong?
Yes it is wrong. It is taking money under false pretenses because God is not there to receive it.
Quote:
Only if I think that it's a magical chant that contains power in the words.
As I said -- if you can pray those prayers and they are the desires in your heart, and it's you praying it....great. If instead you think that by simply reciting them you are manipulating God, as a sorcerer might manipulate the world around him by simply chanting a magical set of words....that is wrong.
I almost fell on the floor from this pot/kettle nonsense about magical thinking from one of the main proponents of magical thinking!
Honestly...not my church. A good portion of my salary is paid for not by the church, but by a missionary agency. If the church paid nothing of my salary there would still be a church here. I have never stood and begged for money in my church. I did preach on giving 2 weeks ago--because that's what 1 Cor 16:1-4 was about. This past weekend I moved on to 1 Cor 16:5-24 and I did not preach on giving.
In my parish the Monsignor asks for money once a year because he is commanded to do so by the Archdiocese. We are told that as Christians we should help the less advantaged folks. It is done because it is simply a good thing to help others.
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God commands it. Why? Because ultimately it glorifies him. It's worship
Do you think God needs someone to worship and glorify him?
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When we pray to him we give him worship. We also draw closer to him--and it builds the relationship.
I think that prayer is 100% for the person doing the prayer. The worship is 100% for the worshipers.
God commands it. Why? Because ultimately it glorifies him. It's worship. When we pray to him we give him worship. We also draw closer to him--and it builds the relationship.
We can add NOTHING to God, Vizio . . . let alone glory. Worship is NOT for God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Do you think God needs someone to worship and glorify him?
I think that prayer is 100% for the person doing the prayer. The worship is 100% for the worshipers.
Vizio. think no serious Catholic really think that the words of this or any other prayer are magic in any way---their usefulness is ONLY thru sincerity of heart and holiness of purpose.
Unfortunately there are people from all walks of life that believe that God is a magic. Pay attention to the stores book shelf on occasion. People are scamming all the time. Its the law of attraction. The secret. Boy even Karma was devised and grafted into a Religion.
It takes a serious labor to get past all the confusion in the world.
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