Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If they really thought Jesus was the son of God, then they would have stepped up to the plate, and let the work continue. The group was beginning to fray with doubt and defectors. Jesus recognized this. They allowed him to be taken by Rome. They ran. They felt deep shame. Meh.. they were human. They were afraid. They protected themselves.
How do you live with that guilt? By minimizing your role in his arrest, torture, and murder.
It was their attempt to redeem themselves. Jesus became much more important to them after he died.
That's not true. Jesus spoke those words early in His ministry, during His conversation with Nicodemus.
they are only different because evangelicals CANNOT reconcile the two statements that directly contradict each other..
Lord have mercy!
In John 3, Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus about being born again.
In 1 John 2, John is speaking to the church about how we should live as believers.
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
In John 3, Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus about being born again.
In 1 John 2, John is speaking to the church about how we should live as believers.
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
AND GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, (sounds all so simple, yet all so contradictory to 1 John 2...)
ANYONE sounds like a PERSONAL pronoun referring to PEOPLE..
My line of reasoning is based on Scripture, which says as much.
No, jimmiej, it does not. Once again you are confusing result with mechanism because you are saturated with the Anselm/Calvin formulation of the mechanism (Which they also confused). Please seriously consider that the descriptions of the results of Jesus' action are NOT descriptions of the mechanism by which He accomplished it. Look at ALL of those descriptions and please note that if they were descriptions of the one single mechanism, they would be in conflict among themselves. Look at the historic perceptions of the mechanism by which Jesus accomplished the Atonement and stop insisting that what you have been taught can be the only way. THEN look at it and realize that such a mechanism is not consistent with the Character of God as demonstrated by Jesus.
AND GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, (sounds all so simple, yet all so contradictory to 1 John 2...)
1 John 2: 15-17
Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, is the concupiscence of the flesh, and the concupiscence of the eyes, and the pride of life, which is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the concupiscence thereof: but he that doth the will of God, abideth for ever.
John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.But he that doth truth, cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, because they are done in God.
No, jimmiej, it does not. Once again you are confusing result with mechanism because you are saturated with the Anselm/Calvin formulation of the mechanism (Which they also confused). Please seriously consider that the descriptions of the results of Jesus' action are NOT descriptions of the mechanism by which He accomplished it. Look at ALL of those descriptions and please note that if they were descriptions of the one single mechanism, they would be in conflict among themselves. Look at the historic perceptions of the mechanism by which Jesus accomplished the Atonement and stop insisting that what you have been taught can be the only way. THEN look at it and realize that such a mechanism is not consistent with the Character of God as demonstrated by Jesus.
Nate, this sound like one mechanism, the redemptive work of Christ. How are these in conflict?
Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Romans 5:9
We have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Hebrews 9:22
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
What I would ask the fundamentalist Christians is this: If Jesus died to save you from the penalty of sin, why then are you still subject to sickness, death, and sorrow? If the penalty for sin is eternal separation from God, then Jesus would have to be eternally separated from the Father to pay that price. The penalty for sin is death and we are to follow Jesus in the spirit of FAITH through death. He came to show us both how to live and how to die. Nothing more, nothing less. Jesus came to set us free from fear, especially the fear of death.
I like the place you are thinking from HS.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
