Woe unto them who call evil to good. (crucifixion, believers, Holy Spirit)
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Jesus is not recorded as having said anything about being a blood sacrifice to appease God's wrath. The passage you referenced doesn't indicate that he did, either.
As for Paul in Thess, perhaps you could be more specific?
But, I will say this, if Paul DID say that Jesus was a blood sacrifice to appease God's wrath so that God could forgive, and also wrote that love does not keep a record of wrongs, he got one of those two things wrong.
See John 3:16-18, 36
1 Thess. 1:10
The entire book of Hebrews
Jimmie, jimmie, jimmie . . . Stop reading the Bible with the CONTEXT of the OT beliefs about God. They are under the veil of ignorance that Christ came to lift. Read with the CONTEXT of God who IS agape love and your interpretation of all the verses would be completely changed.
Jimmie, jimmie, jimmie . . . Stop reading the Bible with the CONTEXT of the OT beliefs about God. They are under the veil of ignorance that Christ came to lift. Read with the CONTEXT of God who IS agape love and your interpretation of all the verses would be completely changed.
Right. Jimmie, if you want to believe that the passages you quoted mean that God could not forgive without having his wrath appeased by a blood sacrifice then, unless you're okay living with cognitive dissonance, you must let go of the belief that God is love and that love does not keep a record of wrongs. They are not compatible beliefs.
Right. Jimmie, if you want to believe that the passages you quoted mean that God could not forgive without having his wrath appeased by a blood sacrifice then, unless you're okay living with cognitive dissonance, you must let go of the belief that God is love and that love does not keep a record of wrongs. They are not compatible beliefs.
Your choice.
And it is your choice to ignore what the Scripture says. But you are in disagreement with Jesus, Paul and the OT prophets.
And it is your choice to ignore what the Scripture says. But you are in disagreement with Jesus, Paul and the OT prophets.
I cannot accept as truth those fundamentalist doctrines which warp love beyond recognition, which call evil good, and which exchange sweet for bitter, Jimmie.
I don't know if that's a choice or simply an inevitability but, either way, love has won my heart and my allegiance.
Jimmie, jimmie, jimmie . . . Stop reading the Bible with the CONTEXT of the OT beliefs about God. They are under the veil of ignorance that Christ came to lift. Read with the CONTEXT of God who IS agape love and your interpretation of all the verses would be completely changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Right. Jimmie, if you want to believe that the passages you quoted mean that God could not forgive without having his wrath appeased by a blood sacrifice then, unless you're okay living with cognitive dissonance, you must let go of the belief that God is love and that love does not keep a record of wrongs. They are not compatible beliefs.
Your choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
And it is your choice to ignore what the Scripture says. But you are in disagreement with Jesus, Paul and the OT prophets.
Only because you read and interpret them in the CONTEXT of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifice . . , NOT a God who IS agape love and is NOT counting our sins against us. You reject the God revealed by Christ to accept the one described by our primitive ancestors under the veil of ignorance over the OT. You reject the New Covenant and deny that Christ actually abides with us as the Living Word of God and the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." You reject what agape love tells you in your heart in favor of what the "precepts and doctrines of men" tell you from the words "written in ink." We love you, jimmie . . . but we are saddened by your entrapment in the false Gospel of the anti-Christ apostate majority in these "latter days."
Hi Jimmie, As Pleroo mentioned, does love keep a record of wrongs?
And there's the key. In the mind of someone who is convinced that God could not forgive without a blood sacrifice to appease God's wrath, it is necessary to "ignore what scripture says" about love not keeping a record of wrongs. The bible has contradicting ideas within it, and whether they realize it or not, even those who believe it is infallible are ignoring things within it. It can't be helped.
Jimmie, this is what I meant when I said it's your choice. Anyone who reads the bible is making a choice about what (if anything) within it's pages to align themselves with. Better to be honest about it, otherwise you find yourself inadvertently aligned with things that are the antithesis of the things that you know are good.
I cannot accept as truth those fundamentalist doctrines which warp love beyond recognition, which call evil good, and which exchange sweet for bitter, Jimmie.
I don't know if that's a choice or simply an inevitability but, either way, love has won my heart and my allegiance.
Love is not absent from Jesus' sacrifice. Rather, it was the motivation behind it.
"For God so loved..."
How does the requirement of a blood sacrifice warp love? How is it evil? Please explain.
What so many of you fail to recognize is the holiness of God. That's why a blood sacrifice was required.
And there's the key. In the mind of someone who is convinced that God could not forgive without a blood sacrifice to appease God's wrath, it is necessary to "ignore what scripture says" about love not keeping a record of wrongs. The bible has contradicting ideas within it, and whether they realize it or not, even those who believe it is infallible are ignoring things within it. It can't be helped.
Jimmie, this is what I meant when I said it's your choice. Anyone who reads the bible is making a choice about what (if anything) within it's pages to align themselves with. Better to be honest about it, otherwise you find yourself inadvertently aligned with things that are the antithesis of the things that you know are good.
How does God forgive sin, or is there no need for Him to forgive? How are we redeemed, without the blood sacrifice, or is there no need for redemption? Please explain.
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