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Matthew Vines does not accurately portray Scripture.
If you are interested in doing your best to follow Christ, the video will not help you. He will focus on homosexuality being a bridge to higher self esteem, which in his opinion is paramount... and he will twist the Scriptures to that end, instead of being more like Christ.
Matthew Vines does not accurately portray Scripture.
If you are interested in doing your best to follow Christ, the video will not help you. He will focus on homosexuality being a bridge to higher self esteem, which in his opinion is paramount... and he will twist the Scriptures to that end, instead of being more like Christ.
No, you refuse to interpret Scripture the way Jesus did---as in not condemning people--because your god is a God of condemnation.
CoffeFanatic, Vines did a great two year study of Scripture that takes into account the context in which Scripture was written. That is the only way to properly evaluate the Bible. Your next book ought to be WHAT JESUS MEANT. by Northwestern Professor Emeritus Garry Willis, an expert in Koine Greek, the language of the NT authors.
Jesus' harshest words as recorded in Scripture were for the Pharisaical fundamentalists of his day, who consistently interpreted the OT in a manner that showed no mercy nor grace to surrounding people. Unfortunately DRob4JC represents the view of today's Pharisees who consider the Bible as an idol and interpret Jesus from Scripture rather than Scripture from Jesus.
I'm told that God said if you're a homosexual, it's ok to smoke marijuana.
"Let any man who sleeps with another be stoned."
..........................................We now return you to your morally corrective posts....
***Story behind that line***
I moved from my favorite church of all times in Tampa, to Huntsville, AL 5+ years ago.
I was saved in that church - I made a lot of awesome friends in that church, I still miss that church.
The men's group I once attended, has retreats twice a year. At one of them I was invited to last year, one of the church elders and I were talking, and he said that it's ok to be a homosexual and to smoke pot... I about lost it id disbelief that he'd say that... then he gave the bible verse, and the two of us were rolling on the floor laughing...
I'll never forget him because of that line....
Everyone is deserving of death. Praise to the Son of God who sacrificed Himself for me and all who believe in His death and resurrection.
Must have breezed right past the videos where evangelicals were calling to instant death of members of the LGBT community?
Do I detect a twinge of guilt?
Matthew Vines does not accurately portray Scripture.
If you are interested in doing your best to follow Christ, the video will not help you. He will focus on homosexuality being a bridge to higher self esteem, which in his opinion is paramount... and he will twist the Scriptures to that end, instead of being more like Christ.
Because it isn't any of your business to do so! What is so difficult to comprehend about this? For Christians, God is NOT counting our sins against us so why on earth would anyone concern themselves with what they think is someone else's sins???
Nor mine. I didn't read the link because I don't care why this man can't affirm gay people. Who is he? God made people who are Gay. That's it.
That means I must "affirm" them. Love them. And support them.
Where do we discuss your post commenting on the Matthew Vines' video - here on this thread or elsewhere?
Go for it right here. I tried on the original thread, but he keeps claiming all our counter arguments to him are out of some handbook (which one he isn't clear on) that he apparently has read through and through, like studying the Bible so he can tell how evil we are.
What DRob4JC does is what all fundamentalists do. They read Scripture without any contextual setting. Paul was writing to Roman CHRISTIANS and everything he condemns in chapter one, he claims they are practicing in chapter two, verse one.
The point was that both male and female prostitutes were available as a form of pagan "temple" worship in Rome, and not all "believers" had separated themselves from pagan worship.
Vines summed up his discourse very well in his own book, God and the Gay Christian:
1.The term “homosexual” didn’t exist until 1892 2. Sexual orientation is a new concept—one that the Christian tradition hasn’t addressed. 3. Celibacy is a gift, not a mandate. 4. Condemning same-sex relationships is harmful to the LGBT community. 5. Sodom and Gomorrah involved an attempted gang rape, not a loving relationship. 6. The prohibitions in Leviticus don’t apply to Christians. 7. Paul condemns same-sex lust, not love. (This is important because one of the ideas in the context of what Paul wrote was that Paul described same-sex behavior as the result of excessive sexual desire on the part of people who could be content with opposite-sex relationships. (This is a well accepted premise among scholars--even those without a religious viewpoint). Paul didn’t have long-term, loving same-sex relationships in view. And while he described same-sex behavior as “unnatural,” he also said men having long hair goes against nature, and most Christians read that as a reference to cultural conventions. 8. Marriage is about commitment. 9. Human beings are relational. 10. Faithful Christians are already embracing LGBT brothers and sisters. (http://time.com/2842044/gay-christians/ )
If one has to feel superior to others, what better way than to pick a black man, or a woman of any race, or in these latter days, a homosexual. If conservative Christians really wanted to speak of Jesus love, they would be quoting from Paul's 13th chapter of I Corinthians, not from the first chapter of Romans aimed at specific Christians who hadn't yet learned that Christianity, despite what fundamentalists claim, has a certain expectation of behavior.
God specifically condemned temple prostitution even in the OT. He did NOT condemn prostitution, per se because, realistically, so many of His human servants had sex with them (Sampson and Judah are two off the top of my head). But God DOES condemn breaking covenants with one's spouse. Consider in Hosea 1:2 how God commands Hosea to marry a prostitute and have children by her. She apparently wasn't all that anathema to God. Further, God uses that situation to explain how Israel ("married" to God) went whoring after other gods, just as Hosea's wife did with other men.
But I would be interested to hear what you think on the subject.
Nor mine. I didn't read the link because I don't care why this man can't affirm gay people. Who is he? God made people who are Gay. That's it.
That means I must "affirm" them. Love them. And support them.
Case closed.
Go for it right here. I tried on the original thread, but he keeps claiming all our counter arguments to him are out of some handbook (which one he isn't clear on) that he apparently has read through and through, like studying the Bible so he can tell how evil we are.
What DRob4JC does is what all fundamentalists do. They read Scripture without any contextual setting. Paul was writing to Roman CHRISTIANS and everything he condemns in chapter one, he claims they are practicing in chapter two, verse one.
The point was that both male and female prostitutes were available as a form of pagan "temple" worship in Rome, and not all "believers" had separated themselves from pagan worship.
Vines summed up his discourse very well in his own book, God and the Gay Christian:
1.The term “homosexual” didn’t exist until 1892 2. Sexual orientation is a new concept—one that the Christian tradition hasn’t addressed. 3. Celibacy is a gift, not a mandate. 4. Condemning same-sex relationships is harmful to the LGBT community. 5. Sodom and Gomorrah involved an attempted gang rape, not a loving relationship. 6. The prohibitions in Leviticus don’t apply to Christians. 7. Paul condemns same-sex lust, not love. (This is important because one of the ideas in the context of what Paul wrote was that Paul described same-sex behavior as the result of excessive sexual desire on the part of people who could be content with opposite-sex relationships. (This is a well accepted premise among scholars--even those without a religious viewpoint). Paul didn’t have long-term, loving same-sex relationships in view. And while he described same-sex behavior as “unnatural,” he also said men having long hair goes against nature, and most Christians read that as a reference to cultural conventions. 8. Marriage is about commitment. 9. Human beings are relational. 10. Faithful Christians are already embracing LGBT brothers and sisters. (10 Reasons God Loves Gay Christians )
If one has to feel superior to others, what better way than to pick a black man, or a woman of any race, or in these latter days, a homosexual. If conservative Christians really wanted to speak of Jesus love, they would be quoting from Paul's 13th chapter of I Corinthians, not from the first chapter of Romans aimed at specific Christians who hadn't yet learned that Christianity, despite what fundamentalists claim, has a certain expectation of behavior.
God specifically condemned temple prostitution even in the OT. He did NOT condemn prostitution, per se because, realistically, so many of His human servants had sex with them (Sampson and Judah are two off the top of my head). But God DOES condemn breaking covenants with one's spouse. Consider in Hosea 1:2 how God commands Hosea to marry a prostitute and have children by her. She apparently wasn't all that anathema to God. Further, God uses that situation to explain how Israel ("married" to God) went whoring after other gods, just as Hosea's wife did with other men.
But I would be interested to hear what you think on the subject.
Historical facts all true, as far as I know. There was sexual abuse of young boys by those in power.
I am not much of a follower of Paul, but I Corinthians 13 - the Love Chapter- is a notable exception.
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