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It may not be a big deal in the context of an individual believer's relationship with Christ, but it is a big deal when any segment of the faith holds nonsensical positions that provide fodder for those who are opposed to the faith. It is not merely the absurdity of the YECs' position that embarrasses Christianity, but the silliness of their efforts to make their position appear "scientific." There are some areas of science as to which there is still at least room for legitimate debate - macroevolution being one, IMHO - but the YEC position is simply nonsense. I doubt very seriously if anyone with an IQ above 75 actually believes in YEC; I think most YECs simply enjoy being part of this goofy community with its in-your-face position that invites ridicule. It makes them feel special and persecuted. I really see YEC as more of a "psychological phenomenon" than an intellectual position.
Speak for yourself please. I am not embarrassed, and neither are the vast majority of Christians I personally know that believe the same. BTW, my IQ is 130., but faith has NOTHING to do with IQ.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Originally Posted by StanJP
Either one believes unproven scientific theory, which in itself requires faith, or one who believes the literal creation story in Gen 1. I accept the latter based on my faith in God's word being true and inerrant.
Do you even understand what a scientist means when they use the word theory? This is not a WAHG (guess), but it comes about as a result of a structured assessment of hypothesize.
And yes, I believe that the Dinosaurs died out some sixty five million years ago which is perhaps unfortunate, because this would have been nice. Then again, Raquel Welch is nice with or without Dinosaurs. And then there's that Jurassic Park thing which didn't work out too well.
Wow... really? So, exactly what part of science do you see playing in advancement of medical issues? Faith? OR?
Not what I said... No one is talking medicine, physics, or anything where actual experiments and lab work takes place.
To me, there's a lot of guesswork in estimating remains, layers of sediment, fossils, etc. - especially when we are not privy to what happened "billions and billions" of years ago. There is no first hand, second hand, third hand, etc. actual evidence (like we have for American history for example).
Again - that's just me. I will not make this a huge issue, because it isn't for me.
When the word 'Dinosaur' was coined is completely irrevelent to the issue at hand. And the claim that human footprints were found beside dinosaur tracks seems to have been discounted.
For many years claims were made by strict, "young-earth" creationists that human footprints or "giant man tracks" occur alongside fossilized dinosaur tracks in the limestone beds of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose Texas. If true, such a finding would dramatically contradict the conventional geologic timetable, which holds that humans did not appear on earth until over 60 million years after the dinosaurs became extinct. However, the "man track" claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and in recent years have been abandoned even by most creationists. [Bolding mine]
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,944,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Not what I said... No one is talking medicine, physics, or anything where actual experiments and lab work takes place.
To me, there's a lot of guesswork in estimating remains, layers of sediment, fossils, etc. - especially when we are not privy to what happened "billions and billions" of years ago. There is no first hand, second hand, third hand, etc. actual evidence (like we have for American history for example).
Again - that's just me. I will not make this a huge issue, because it isn't for me.
The fact that earth is not only 6-10,000 years old is shown through multiple scientific disciplines, not just one. The same disciplines that are used in medicine, physics, mining, oil exploration, space exploration etc. etc.
The process is the same. What part of that is hard to understand?
Oh, it's easy to do. Just make the determination that the Bible is the most important thing, that a "perfect" book is necessary to know God, and that all facts must be brought in to submission to Scripture.
From that standpoint, I have more respect for DRob4JC's point of view. He recognizes that belief in YEC is not critical to salvation or living for Christ. What neither he nor StanJP recognize is how ignorant they appear to the vast majority of unbelievers--and quite a few believers as well--whether their IQ is 75 or 130.
Mine was 131 fifty years ago, but I suspect age and pain has decreased my cognitive abilities--but not so much that I'm going to swallow a YEC story. I follow St. Augustine's advice from 1700 years ago regarding science and faith:
Quote:
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven,when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]
All such foolish christians do is hurt their witness to unbelievers, driving a wedge between them and any interest in seeking to know God. All the polls show this is one of several primary reasons that young millennials are rejecting organized religion.
The Bible is a book about faith, not science.
For a Christian perspective on how faith and science are melded into one read Faith, Science, and Reason, Theology on the Cutting Edge, by Christopher T. Baglow. This is one area that Catholics have a much clearer and more reasoned approach to Scripture than do evangelicals.
The fact that earth is not only 6-10,000 years old is shown through multiple scientific disciplines, not just one. The same disciplines that are used in medicine, physics, mining, oil exploration, space exploration etc. etc.
The process is the same. What part of that is hard to understand?
You know what's interesting? Science will study and study these things, but never attribute a Creator to what has been created.
The sun is a certain distance from the earth, and supplies the earth with the exact amount of heat to sustain life. The earth moves about the sun year after year consistently in the same path. The moon and stars likewise behave in a predictable pattern. The movement of the planets is predictable. There are no design flaws. There are no errors. Who is responsible? You can't do something of this magnitude with this accuracy without a Creator.
Humans have done some remarkable things - floating satellites in the space, landed and walked on the moon, got a vehicle to Mars and take pictures. We aren't suspending planets in space and giving them their route of travel.
For me, God is responsible for the order we have today, which includes all of the science & laws of physics, thermodynamics, aerodynamics, etc. that are in play. Not only is He responsible, but He is able to suspend those laws as well. It could the Red Sea dividing, or a heavy ax head the float to the surface of water, or it could be Peter walking on the water, or it could be Jesus physically resurrected from the dead.
So it would not surprise me if God took 6 days, 6 months, 6 years, or 6 billion years to create the earth.
You keep wanting me to acknowledge what man has done in figuring out the age of the earth. Why don't you acknowledge what God has done and give Him (or someone) credit - which is infinitely greater than anything man has done or studied?
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And then there's that Jurassic Park thing which didn't work out too well.
