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Of course the Bible is emotionally powerful. So are other religious texts like the Book of Mormon and the Quran. That's why these religions are so successful: their ideas prey on fundamental human emotions, desires, and vulnerabilities.
The religions we have now are the most psychologically potent, the others having been eliminated by a kind of natural selection.
For example, the threat of eternal punishment in hell (taught by Christianity and Islam) is more potent than the threat of a finite punishment in hell (Zoroastrianism). So the eternal hell concept ultimately won out. Another example: any religion that teaches that non-believers are sub-human until conversion will also be highly sucessful, as it rationalizes conquest in the name of establishing God's Truth(tm) by force. Both Christianity and Islam see non-believers as fundamentally defective until conversion to the One True Religion.
Actually, I am talking about something that transcends mere human emotion. As for the "sub-human" reference, I am unclear from what source this is derived. As for Christianity seeing non-believers as fundamentally defective, that is incorrect. Christianity teaches that we are all fundamentally defective. We lie, we covet, we judge, we dishonor our parents, and the list goes on and on. A rational look at the world confirms the inherent moral flaws present in each one of us. And, if we say we have no sin (moral flaws), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Weird. I read the Bible and became a Christian. I know of others that did, as well.
I suppose you need to put a little effort into understanding it. That seems to be a common area that atheists (at least the ones I've talked to) seem to be lacking in .
I'm going to preach tomorrow on 1 Timothy 2. I'm actually going to read the passage saying women should be quiet and submissive in church. Yes--I do cover all areas of the Bible. Even the "offensive ones". They're not that offensive when you put them in context.
I always thought most became atheists by watching the example set by the church folks...
An unfortunate generalization. I do believe, however, that there are many church folks who reflect Christ well, by the way they lead their lives. Of course, all church folks should be providing good examples on how to live according to the standard set by Jesus. But all of us are sinners and the process of becoming more Christlike is a lifelong process.
Of course the Bible is emotionally powerful. So are other religious texts like the Book of Mormon and the Quran. That's why these religions are so successful: their ideas prey on fundamental human emotions, desires, and vulnerabilities.
Satisfying fundamental human emotions and desires is not the same thing as preying on them.
An unfortunate generalization. I do believe, however, that there are many church folks who reflect Christ well, by the way they lead their lives. Of course, all church folks should be providing good examples on how to live according to the standard set by Jesus. But all of us are sinners and the process of becoming more Christlike is a lifelong process.
Unfortunate, but all too often true. Too many church folks are overly concerned with adding merit badges for saving souls and not enough effort into ministering to a dying world by following the Beatitudes and Matthew 25:31--46
The Sheep and the Goats
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.â€
Unfortunate, but all too often true. Too many church folks are overly concerned with adding merit badges for saving souls and not enough effort into ministering to a dying world by following the Beatitudes and Matthew 25:31--46
A very valid point. But, we cannot use the failings of "church folks" as an excuse to not believe Christ and to follow Him. We are definitely supposed to minister to those in need, but believers are also supposed to "preach the Gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)
Unfortunate, but all too often true. Too many church folks are overly concerned with adding merit badges for saving souls and not enough effort into ministering to a dying world by following the Beatitudes and Matthew 25:31--46
A very valid point. But, we cannot use the failings of "church folks" as an excuse to not believe Christ and to follow Him. We are definitely supposed to minister to those in need, but believers are also supposed to "preach the Gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)
When you minister to those in need you ARE preaching the Gospel!! The Gospel is NOT a course to be taught, it is a way of life to be lived.
Unfortunate, but all too often true. Too many church folks are overly concerned with adding merit badges for saving souls and not enough effort into ministering to a dying world by following the Beatitudes and Matthew 25:31--46
A very valid point. But, we cannot use the failings of "church folks" as an excuse to not believe Christ and to follow Him. We are definitely supposed to minister to those in need, but believers are also supposed to "preach the Gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)
Perhaps not, but those who have been spiritually beaten often enough will turn the other cheek.
When one is abused it is very common for the survivor to be the complete opposite of their oppressor. Our interactions with the world can and has determined how other people see Christ.
Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 08-29-2016 at 06:54 AM..
Atheists have a secret weapon in their arsenal of keeping people from becoming Christians and surprisingly it is the most unlikeliest of weapons: the Holy Bible.
Certainly my own limited anecdotes bear out what you are claiming. In that of the people I have ever "converted" from Christianity to Atheism all but a handful of them I did it by actually getting them to read the Bible which they had not done yet. And they came out of the experience with a "I was meant to believe THAT?" attitude and never went back.
Atheist Ireland, of which I am a founding member, actually does actively campaign to have study of the Bible put MORE into the school curriculum and to have more people read it.
This has confused many theists in Ireland who wonder what our game is. But you have hit on one of (but far from the only) reasons why we do it. We have found, anecdotally mostly but other things suggest it too, that actually reading their holy book can have a detrimental affect on their religiosity.
But we have other reasons for it too. For example I want more study of the Bible in Literature in our schools in Ireland purely because a study of the Bible adds another angle to understanding and appreciating the works of Shakespeare and Milton and more. While the KJV linguistically is, all religion and stuff aside, a beautiful text...... as is I am lead to believe the Koran in the original language.
Biblical imagery and ideas abound in their work and I think one CAN appreciate Shakespeare and Milton without it, but it adds hue with it. In the same way as the color blind can appreciate the world but they are still missing SOMETHING the rest of us see and appreciate.
I genuinely want MORE people to read the Bible from cover to cover, including putting it on the Literature Curriculum for children. Which I certainly would be wary of if I thought anecdotes like Vizios at the start of this thread were anything but the statistical exception. If I thought reading the Bible would cause significant numbers of children to become religious I would not be promoting it for their consumption.
But in school reading the Bible did not seem to make anyone religious. In Ireland it is more that you are told in school you are ALREADY religious often enough that you end up believing it, and the teachers read the same 20 or 30 passages from the Bible repeatedly at you from age 5 to age 12 as the curriculum demands, while integrating religious thought into the rest of the curriculum in EVERY way right down to minutia like even spelling class having predominantly religious words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
In other words 98% of homes in America have a Bible and it sits on the bookshelf year after year collecting dust.
I would be surprised if the number was that high because MY personal experience of giving a Bible to a Christian to read is one of them being shocked at the size of it. Because they have never even SEEN one before.
And because schools and churches read and repeat the same cherry picked limited number of passages, these Christians thought they had heard all of it. So it comes as a genuine shock to them how much more of it there actually is.
It has always surprised me of course as I can only imagine that if I GENUINELY believed there was a god......... that this god had primary and even sole control over my ETERNAL well being........ and that this god wrote, or at the very least influenced and endorsed the writing of, a single book.......... I would make damn sure to own, read, study and re-read that book REMARKABLY closely. It would seem like insane madness to me to do anything BUT get my hands and mind on this book and make it a central part of my life. Yet these people do not even seem to have SEEN one let alone owned or read one. It genuinely baffles me.
Which makes me wonder how many people who claim to be theist actually are, rather than simply claiming to be. "Belief in belief" as Daniel Dennett puts it.
For all the problems fundamentalists cause in the world........ and for all the disagreements I have with them......... at least I can not fault them for, or doubt the genuine nature of, their beliefs. Whereas with the common average theist on the street I find I always wonder just how genuine it is. Fundamentalists are a horrific blight on our world but for all their faults at least I can inside myself believe they are genuine in what they claim to believe.
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