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Contrary to popular claims, true Christians do not "fall away" from Christ or stop being a born-again to Spiritual life in God's indwelling Holy Spirit.
What about those who no longer consider themselves bible fundamentalists or the bible fundamentalist universalists ?.
Liberal Christianity tends to minimize or deny God's wrath and judgment. It also tends to make it seem as though God accepts everyone they way they are, and that they have no need to repent of their sins, or worship God. So what they may not realize, according to their teachings, there is no reason to love God, fear God, trust God, worship God or pay any attention to his word. That means that these liberal churches have, for those who listen to what they say, taken away any reason to come to church. So in essence, it means that when it comes to church, they're saying "never mind, don't bother or waste your time" Therefore its no surprise that these liberal churches are the ones that have seen the steepest declines in membership.
Liberal Christianity tends to minimize or deny God's wrath and judgment. It also tends to make it seem as though God accepts everyone they way they are, and that they have no need to repent of their sins, or worship God. So what they may not realize, according to their teachings, there is no reason to love God, fear God, trust God, worship God or pay any attention to his word. That means that these liberal churches have, for those who listen to what they say, taken away any reason to come to church. So in essence, it means that when it comes to church, they're saying "never mind, don't bother or waste your time" Therefore its no surprise that these liberal churches are the ones that have seen the steepest declines in membership.
Exactly. You cannot be UN born again/born from above, separated from His body which is Spirit. But people can and do leave denoms all the day long and think that's not being a "Christian" anymore. No, if you're born again, it just means you left a denom, which may or may not have taught being born again in the first place. If someone is not one now, they never were one, period. They deceive themselves and others in the process, and that's what is sad about it, the harm that they do others who don't know any better. Peace
The utter irony in this post is beyond anything I thought humanly possible. You accuse others of following demons and then rejecting them when leaving fundamentalist teachings without recognizing that you are saying fundamentalist teachings are demon-inspired, not Holy Spirit inspired. Yet, when you are asked to describe the characteristics of the Holy Spirit you claim to follow, you cannot. How on earth can you possibly know YOU are NOT following one of those demon spirits you accuse others of following. What do you use to distinguish among these spirits if not their characteristics and fruits that you cannot identify?????
Yes as Ananias died not because he held some back, but because he lied about it. It wasn't the amount, but the lying.
Hmmm. No doubt all the others saw that distinction as they stood their watching!
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Originally Posted by expatCA
Yep and his praise was for her heart felt gift rather than the gifts the Pharisees gave to draw attention to themselves. It isn't the amount it is a gift from the heart.
A fine sentiment--just not biblical.
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Originally Posted by expatCA
works either way as we only live one day at a time. Giving what we can and wish to is the key, so no reason to feel ashamed at all.
Each day or this day, it still amounts to the same thing. Daily Bread not wealth.
We do live one day at a time. But the amount we hold back indicates we are thinking of tomorrow, not today as Jesus was, nor does it reflect His teaching about the birds of the air. And it also indicates how much or how little we spiritually are willing to trust God. And bread, in a poverty stricken world WAS wealth. Did not Jesus tell a parable about a rich fool?
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Someone in the crowd said to him, "Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me."
Jesus replied, "Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?" Then he said to them, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."
And he told them this parable: "The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop. He thought to himself, 'What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.'
"Then he said, 'This is what I'll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I'll say to myself, "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry." '
"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?'
"This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God."
Luke 12:13-21
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Originally Posted by expatCA
Being Liberal has nothing to do with it. Giving from the heart does. How much is up to each person. Neither God not Jesus have set an amount to give. We are told God loves a cheerful giver, soooo the amount is not the issue, the attitude is.
Sounds like a Trumpism to me. He hasn't given anything to his own charity since 2008--or maybe he tossed in a penny or two when no one was watching--in order to buy that six foot high painting of himself. But he claims to be a christian, too!
And yes, Scripture says God loves a cheerful giver, but right before that is the verse EVERYONE overlooks:
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Consider this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
2 Cor. 9:6
All I'm saying is that the church of today, what is given and what is withheld are nothing like the first century Christians practiced--which was basically communism.
Christianity has basically changed with culture. Not surprising as we all want to make it relevant. And in this country where the god of capitalism sits right alongside the God of the Hebrews, getting yours and giving from the excess (if at all) is the rule of the day. And this you know if you ever look into your own heart as I do in mine.
Liberal Christianity tends to minimize or deny God's wrath and judgment.
You betcha!!
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Originally Posted by augiedogie
It also tends to make it seem as though God accepts everyone they way they are, and that they have no need to repent of their sins, or worship God.
What did you DO in order to have God find you? Is repentance a DEED, like working your way to heaven?
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Originally Posted by augiedogie
So what they may not realize, according to their teachings, there is no reason to love God, fear God, trust God, worship God or pay any attention to his word. That means that these liberal churches have, for those who listen to what they say, taken away any reason to come to church. So in essence, it means that when it comes to church, they're saying "never mind, don't bother or waste your time" Therefore its no surprise that these liberal churches are the ones that have seen the steepest declines in membership.
The "liberal" churches are declining because of their failure to live like the first century Christians who gave more than they received. The "conservative" churches are losing numbers, too, primarily because they focus on sin and fear which is not attractive.
If conservative churches wanted to pay attention to the "word" which they hold to be equal to Jesus, they would at least learn how to deal with the many digressive views of the OT. Instead they look at the OT as definition of Jesus, when it was Jesus who told us how to understand the OT--and His view was pretty liberal! :
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One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matt 22:35-40
Conservative christians just don't believe that ALL LAW AND PROPHETS as defined by Jesus in so succinct a manner is really true. Because in their hearts is the idea that staying free from certain sins guarantees their acceptance into heaven. They deny it, but their message proclaims it. And its not even ALL sins, just sins that primarily "others" are involved in.
P.S. The "love your neighbor part wasn't in the Ten Commandments. Jesus lifted that from Leviticus--the book that condemns homosexuals as conservative "christians" do. For them "love your neighbor doesn't include homosexuals. Nor does it include one's enemies--after all, exceptions have to be made!
You might consider reading Inspiration and Incarnation; Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament by Peter Enns, an evangelical who wrote the book to open up discussion among conservative Christians about the sometimes difficult, conflicting, and contradictory verses and prophets.
From the first line in his book:
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"The purpose of this book is to bring an evangelical doctrine of Scripture into conversation with the implications generated by some important themes in modern biblical scholarship—particularly Old Testament scholarship—over the past 150 years"
Inspiration and Incarnation (p. 13).
The point is that most of our current religious faith has been inbred with our own culture while ignoring the culture of the people during each time frame when those 66 books were written. You might wish to make an attempt to KNOW about such things before drawing lines in the sand.
But he did not demand funds from his followers, etc, they were voluntary contributions. No if we can acquire resources to share as he did, Miraculously, then I would share in abundance. Currently I have to be wise in what I share and have available to share and to whom I share it with.
That is not what Jesus advised--he said SELL EVERYTHING and GIVE TO THE POOR--Jesus did not say to VET everyone to prove they are worthy and deserving of charity...
It is a PARABLE, APPLICABLE to each of us...
Perhaps ACTS 2:45 rings a bell?
The Fellowship of the Believers
42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles.
44 All the believers were together and had everything in common.
45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.
46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
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