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Liberal Christianity tends to minimize or deny God's wrath and judgment.
Correct. You get your "spot-on" for that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie
It also tends to make it seem as though God accepts everyone they way they are,
Yup. Score for you and your fellow augie, but you have to keep reading...
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie
and that they have no need to repent of their sins, or worship God.
Nope. Why would someone not need to repent of what they have done wrong or of what they should have done but did not do? We all need to remind ourselves regularly that we have to begin again, to try to do better. In my church we say a prayer of confession every week before we participate in the Eucharist:
Let us confess our sins against God and our neighbor.
(Silence may be kept.)
Most merciful God,
we confess that we have sinned against you
in thought, word, and deed,
by what we have done,
and by what we have left undone.
We have not loved you with our whole heart;
we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
We are truly sorry and we humbly repent.
For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,
have mercy on us and forgive us;
that we may delight in your will,
and walk in your ways,
to the glory of your Name. Amen.
As a matter of fact, that is probably a major difference between liberal and fundamentalist thinking--you guys believe that once you are forgiven, that's it, no more need to self-examine and work on becoming a better person. We think very differently in that regard--we must always keep trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie
So what they may not realize, according to their teachings, there is no reason to love God, fear God, trust God, worship God or pay any attention to his word.
This is just bizarre. There's no other word for it. I don't even know how to respond to such an odd statement. Is he saying that we don't have a reason to love/fear/trust/worship God because we don't view him as wrathful and punitive? You lost your "spot-on" derby there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie
That means that these liberal churches have, for those who listen to what they say, taken away any reason to come to church. So in essence, it means that when it comes to church, they're saying "never mind, don't bother or waste your time" Therefore its no surprise that these liberal churches are the ones that have seen the steepest declines in membership.
But we do go to church, or at least many of us do, so "spot-on" loses again. And new people come in all the time, while others move on to the next phase of their spiritual lives. Another difference is that we are not all about numbers and membership rolls as an indication of spiritual maturity.
You've seen the discussions on here from those who want to begin taxing churches, particularly property tax to pay for use of service. Well, we in small parishes with low budgets are aware that such a change in law would quickly cause us to lose our church buildings because we could not afford to pay property tax. And you know what? If it happens, it happens. They'll turn the buildings into restaurants or what have you and get their taxes collected. But will that mean our churches will die? I don't think so, because the church exists in the hearts of the believers, not in the stone and wood and stained glass windows. In some ways it's a blessing to be in a church that is on the edge of poverty, because it helps keep you in mind of what it's supposed to be about in the first place.
As a matter of fact, that is probably a major difference between liberal and fundamentalist thinking--you guys believe that once you are forgiven, that's it, no more need to self-examine and work on becoming a better person. We think very differently in that regard--we must always keep trying.
Not exactly. Once we accept Christ, we're forgiven forever. To mature spiritually, we must confess when we fail.
But we do go to church, or at least many of us do, so "spot-on" loses again. And new people come in all the time, while others move on to the next phase of their spiritual lives. Another difference is that we are not all about numbers and membership rolls as an indication of spiritual maturity.
You know, many liberals here don't participate in a local church at all and vehemently bash the local church as Godless. Other liberals here reject God altogether. You are the exception.
So, when liberals say...
The Bible is not “God-breathed” and has errors, Stop lying. We say it IS God-breathed but it has errors and not ALL of it is God-breathed. We must test the Spirit of everything.
The virgin birth of Christ is a mythological false teaching, We could care less whether or not this is true.
Jesus did not rise again from the grave in bodily form, Not in a physical body, but in a spiritual body, as a Spirit, as we will too.
Jesus was merely a good moral teacher, Nonsense. He is the FIRSTBORN Son of God, but we will follow Him as sons and daughters of God under His guidance as the Comforter sent in His name.
Hell is not real and man is not lost in sin and is not doomed to some future judgment without a relationship with Christ through faith, Absolutely true. Hell is a human fiction. Jesus eliminated the permanent separation from God. It is finished, so we have nothing to worry about except becoming as much like Christ as possible for us.
That's not true?
See the blue above, jimmie and stop presenting your twisted misunderstanding.
You know, many liberals here don't participate in a local church at all and vehemently bash the local church as Godless. Other liberals here reject God altogether. You are the exception.
Pffftttt...just admit you got that one wrong instead of trying to deflect onto the evil "others".
You know, many liberals here don't participate in a local church at all and vehemently bash the local church as Godless. Other liberals here reject God altogether. You are the exception.
I didn't participate in a local church for years, for a number of reasons that I won't go into here. People do find themselves in different places at different points in their spiritual lives. Church attendance is not an indicator of the depth of one's faith. We even have a prayer in our ever-trusty Book of Common Prayer that mentions "those whose faith is known to You alone". It is not for anyone else to judge the depth of another's faith.
As for liberals who reject God altogether--this thread is about Liberal CHRISTIANS, so that would be irrelevant. There are a number of liberal Christians on this board. I may be an exception in that I'm active in a church at this time in my life. But, since you brought up the non-Christian liberals, it might amuse you to know that my youngest sister is a staunch Republican, Obama-despising, gun-rights-loving, welfare-recipient-hating intolerant-of-immigrants atheist.
Yup. Score for you and your fellow augie, but you have to keep reading...
Nope. Why would someone not need to repent of what they have done wrong or of what they should have done but did not do? We all need to remind ourselves regularly that we have to begin again, to try to do better. In my church we say a prayer of confession every week before we participate in the Eucharist:
Let us confess our sins against God and our neighbor.
(Silence may be kept.)
Most merciful God,
we confess that we have sinned against you
in thought, word, and deed,
by what we have done,
and by what we have left undone.
We have not loved you with our whole heart;
we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
We are truly sorry and we humbly repent.
For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,
have mercy on us and forgive us;
that we may delight in your will,
and walk in your ways,
to the glory of your Name. Amen.
As a matter of fact, that is probably a major difference between liberal and fundamentalist thinking--you guys believe that once you are forgiven, that's it, no more need to self-examine and work on becoming a better person. We think very differently in that regard--we must always keep trying.
This is just bizarre. There's no other word for it. I don't even know how to respond to such an odd statement. Is he saying that we don't have a reason to love/fear/trust/worship God because we don't view him as wrathful and punitive? You lost your "spot-on" derby there.
But we do go to church, or at least many of us do, so "spot-on" loses again. And new people come in all the time, while others move on to the next phase of their spiritual lives. Another difference is that we are not all about numbers and membership rolls as an indication of spiritual maturity.
You've seen the discussions on here from those who want to begin taxing churches, particularly property tax to pay for use of service. Well, we in small parishes with low budgets are aware that such a change in law would quickly cause us to lose our church buildings because we could not afford to pay property tax. And you know what? If it happens, it happens. They'll turn the buildings into restaurants or what have you and get their taxes collected. But will that mean our churches will die? I don't think so, because the church exists in the hearts of the believers, not in the stone and wood and stained glass windows. In some ways it's a blessing to be in a church that is on the edge of poverty, because it helps keep you in mind of what it's supposed to be about in the first place.
Spot on It's what is happening here and in Europe. Organized religion is dying on its knees. Churches are turned into flats and preachers have to find honest jobs. Problems are approached practically, not by looking up scripture or reciting prayers. It is going to happen in America, too, or so it seems and while people will still be free to believe in a god and religion, it won't be pressure to believe in a particular god or religion, much less a particular denomination, or in any god or religion at all.
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You lost your "spot-on" derby there.
It's what is happening here and in Europe. Organized religion is dying on its knees. Churches are turned into flats and preachers have to find honest jobs. Problems are approached practically, not by looking up scripture or reciting prayers. It is going to happen in America, too, or so it seems and while people will still be free to believe in a god and religion, it won't be pressure to believe in a particular god or religion, much less a particular denomination, or in any god or religion at all.
