Ex-Christians, Why Did You Lose Your Faith? (woman, believer, ritual)
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Let's not debate if I was Christian, even as a former Mormon I identify Mormonism as Christianity. Strange, highly-modified, Christianity, but Christianity nonetheless. One of the teachings in Mormonism is that all other churches are bad, or that at that the very best, other churches are "incomplete" - they go as far as calling other churches "abominable" in their scripture.
After I had accomplished all of the steps required to attend their "temple" (those huge castles they build in various large cities, which are different from the more mainstream looking church buildings), I was excited to be enlightened and to learn more about Christ and God and the creation of the Earth. Growing up I had been cautioned against "secret combinations" (Mormonism was founded in an era where people feared underground movements like Masons). In their temple I learned signs and tokens (handshakes and words). They were to be kept secret and only used at the correct time in the temple. They were secret combinations. We then made some promises to God (the church), did some chanting, and I was instructed to present my secret combinations at a curtain. I did so and was then able to sit in a waiting room where I cried because I felt like I had just joined a cult. I asked questions to my church leaders, my friends, my family - but nobody would give me sufficient answers or truly any answers other than "pray about it". It was as if the Emperor had no clothes, and we weren't allowed to talk about it.
After leaving the temple that night, I did an obsessive amount of research and answered my own questions. The answer I came to was that the faith I had been raised in, believed in, and lived the tenets of was a bunch of crap. Well, I had already spent a couple decades learning why all other churches were wrong and I was in the one true church, but then I came to the conclusion that my "one true church" was far and away more easily proven as false than the others, simply due to its more modern age, so it wasn't much of a step to let go of religious Christianity altogether at that point.
I still hold onto some beliefs of Christianity. I don't take them very seriously at this point, but I like them and they don't harm anyone so I have no reason to overthink it. I guess culturally I would identify as Christian still, but in belief I am rather Agnostic. I don't believe I can know the ultimate meaning of life. If I was meant to know, there would be a way to empirically know.
I have never heard of such ritual rites of practice, with a secret combination at curtains and all.
Where you ever a Mormon? If there isn't such a thing I would think Katz is capable of calling him out.
I am more than capable of calling anyone out. I am also more than capable of spotting hyperbolic rhetoric. Let's just say that the way people word things can make a huge difference in how they are interpreted. For example, most women would be quite pleased to be described as "slender," but would be offended at being called "scrawny"; both words are synonyms for "thin," though they have vastly different connotations. I will not dignify Geo-Aggie's post by rewording it. I will say, though, that I have attended a number of non-LDS Christian worship services where the congregants were expected to recite certain statements in unison. Is that "chanting"? I guess so. Mormons "chant," too. So what? Wiki described a secret combination as "people bound together by oaths to carry out the evil purposes of the group." The phrase has absolutely nothing to do with how he used it. It's actually a phrase that isn't even heard much outside Mormonism, and Geo-Aggie's not stupid. He knew it would set off all kinds of red flags among those who read his post. In addition to being capable of calling people out and in addition to being capable of spotting hyperbolic rhetoric, I am also capable of just sitting by and watching as the disaffected froth at the mouth over the perceived injustices against them without letting it upset me too awfully much.
I am more than capable of calling anyone out. I am also more than capable of spotting hyperbolic rhetoric. Let's just say that the way people word things can make a huge difference in how they are interpreted. For example, most women would not object to being called "slender," but would be offended at being called "scrawny"; both words are synonyms for "thin," though they have vastly different connotations. I will not dignify Geo-Aggie's post by rewording it. I will say, though, that I have attended a number of non-LDS Christian worship services where the congregants were expected to recite certain statements in unison. Is that "chanting"? I guess so. Mormons "chant," too. So what? Wiki described a secret combination as "people bound together by oaths to carry out the evil purposes of the group." The phrase has absolutely nothing to do with how he used it. It's actually a phrase that isn't even heard much outside Mormonism, and Geo-Aggie's not stupid. He knew it would set off all kinds of red flags among those who read his post. In addition to being capable of calling people out and in addition to being capable of spotting hyperbolic rhetoric, I am also capable of just sitting by and watching as the disaffected froth at the mouth over the perceived injustices against them without letting it upset me too awfully much.
Obviously the "chanting" reference is supposed to imply it is something bad. Other groups that chant: Football fans, West Pointers, people at political rallies, sports fans who chant "USA! USA!" every time an American beats someone to the finish line.
Maybe the West Pointers need to knock it off to please the people who clutch their pearls or think "Heretics!! Heathens!!" when they hear someone chanting.
I have never heard of such ritual rites of practice, with a secret combination at curtains and all.
Looks like an atheist smokescreen to me.
Not that I am expert on the subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief...ter-day_Saints
It is unlikely you would ever have heard of anything because the Temple processes and procedures are completely secret. It takes quite a bit of demonstrated commitment to the church to qualify. They do not expect any Temple members to ever disavow the church or discuss their rites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
Where you ever a Mormon? If there isn't such a thing I would think Katz is capable of calling him out.
I suspect that Katz is somewhat constrained in what she can and cannot say or do in response.
And yet after all that soul-wrenching trauma and the huge epiphany you had, you still served a mission. You tried to encourage as many people as you could to join that cult. You wore your little missionary badge on your lapel and carried your broken moral compass in your pocket. That's really messed up, you know.
Actually, I didn't. , but thanks for your inaccurate assumption and for showing anyone who reads this post the kinds of behavior former Mormons can expect from actively believing Mormons. Had I actually served a mission, that would've probably hurt. I know many Ex-Mo RMs who regret their missions very much, but that's not my story.
I went inactive at 17 due to a bad experience I had as a teenager, yes - I was "offended", but I still believed it. This was a poor reason to leave a church, but I was 17, what did I know? I went on believing it from 18-23 and "living in sin", but after college I began actively attending a "YSA ward" (meat market, strictly for single Mormons 18-30) in SLC. I was very active, I "repented" for my "sins", and held callings from 24-26, It was here where I met a nice woman, a returned missionary, and we agreed to marry. I attended the temple for the first time at 26 - a necessary precursor to marriage within Mormon circles. What I did do is have a discussion with my fiance about how I couldn't go through the temple endowment again - at least not for a long time. She was fine with this. We married in the temple, and after recovering from my trauma, I attended the endowment twice more. Once as I was losing belief, just to see if I could "feel the spirit" (I didn't) and the second time, once I had fully lost belief, to view it as an outsider. Today she's a non-believer too, largely thanks to the November policy blunder of not allowing little kids of gay parents to be baptized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Powerful witness! I am saddened that there seems to be so much angst over beliefs ABOUT Jesus and God in religions and the desire to be members of the only true religion. What a waste of spiritual energy!! It is all human vanity and hubris. They are tales told by idiots, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Thank you. And I agree, nothing bothers me more about organized religion than the "one true faith.." mantra that so many practice. I don't care if you believe in God, or Christ, or Mohammad, or Vishnu, or Yevon, whatever other deity you prefer. I really just don't care. The only time it starts to bother me is when you start to insist that Yevon is the only true deity who can bring hope and peace and that I need to follow it too if I want happiness, ...(or the only one who can teach me the secret combinations necessary for heaven). This was a huge part of my experience as a Mormon, and it's why I don't believe I could ever attend another organized religion despite still maintaining remnant belief in a God. If a creator exists, it certainly doesn't appear to have planned any of the obviously man-made religions I've learned of.
Last edited by Geo-Aggie; 10-05-2016 at 06:12 AM..
Thank you. And I agree, nothing bothers me more about organized religion than the "one true faith.." mantra that so many practice. I don't care if you believe in God, or Christ, or Mohammad, or Vishnu, or Yevon, whatever other deity you prefer. I really just don't care. The only time it starts to bother me is when you start to insist that Yevon is the only true deity who can bring hope and peace and that I need to follow it too if I want happiness, ...(or the only one who can teach me the secret combinations necessary for heaven). This was a huge part of my experience as a Mormon, and it's why I don't believe I could ever attend another organized religion despite still maintaining remnant belief in a God. If a creator exists, it certainly doesn't appear to have planned any of the obviously man-made religions I've learned of.
Just insert "Lutheran" for "Mormon" and ... ditto.
I actually like Mormon's concept of a person going on to become a god and having a wife and ruling a universe of his own. I think the serpent was pretty cool when he said to Eve, "You will become as god..." I'd like to have my own universe to run. I'm a failed Mormon initiate.
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, but thanks for your inaccurate assumption and for showing anyone who reads this post the kinds of behavior former Mormons can expect from actively believing Mormons. Had I actually served a mission, that would've probably hurt. I know many Ex-Mo RMs who regret their missions very much, but that's not my story.
I am saddened that there seems to be so much angst over beliefs ABOUT Jesus and God in religions and the desire to be members of the only true religion. What a waste of spiritual energy!! It is all human vanity and hubris. They are tales told by idiots, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
