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For me it was a gradual process over 2 years of reading after someone in here challenged me to leave my comfort zone and read some materials by Bart Ehrman, notably "Forged" and "Misquoting Jesus". It was like a snowball effect--the small snowball I started rolling down the mountain gradually became a monolith. I couldn't deny the Christian religion was a jimmied faith filled with rigged beliefs designed to attract followers. The biggest determinants were:
1. No contemporary secular historical accounts from Jesus' time despite the gospels saying, "His fame spread far and wide"
2. Gospels written 40-70 years after Jesus' death by unknown authors
3. The tomb of Joseph of Aramathia never preserved as a shrine
4. Conflicting accounts in the gospels
5. Bad prophecies made by Jesus about his return in his disciples' lifetimes:
“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28) “Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. Then He told them a parable: Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.“ (Luke 21:27-32)
There are many many more but these will suffice.
losing your head is easy getting it back is difficult if not impossible , losing your mind is easy getting it back is difficult if not impossible , losing your keys is easy getting them back is difficult if not impossible, losing your way is easy finding it is difficult, losing your faith is easy finding it is difficult of not impossible. why are you so enthralled with losing something ? losing something is easy finding wisdom and truth is difficult if not impossible. so you can study losing things all you wish but what have you learned not a dang thing.
Any thoughts on what may have birthed this Cosmic Consciousness?
Incisive as always.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Desire!.
Chicken/egg problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
What did the desiring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Life.
ETA: Most folks attribute the creation of life to a god. But I think it possible that life created god.
And we complete the circle. We reach the inescapable conclusion that our reality itself is alive and conscious and we are merely part of its ongoing existence and reproduction.
I cannot mentally separate the two, mordant. In my mind it's like separating a Cartier watch I found from realizing that a "something" or a "someone" made this watch--that the watch didn't just make itself.
While I don't agree with that argument, I can understand it in the context of evolution or origins, but not so much in the context of whether consciousness continues apart from the death of the body. That an afterlife is designed / provided by superior being(s) is only one possible explanation and not necessary to explain it. You can't separate the two in your mind only because you're making assumptions about them. One assumption you're making is that an afterlife has anything to do with the Christian concept of heaven which necessarily has to do with the Christian god. It could just as well have to do with Shiva or Thor, or with purely natural processes, if you're going to speculate about it.
As to the rest of your response, thanks for sharing honestly. I appreciate the insight into your thoughts.
While I don't share your views about NDEs providing evidence for life after death, it's at least marginally a more defensible position than "the Bible says so".
While I don't agree with that argument, I can understand it in the context of evolution or origins, but not so much in the context of whether consciousness continues apart from the death of the body. That an afterlife is designed / provided by superior being(s) is only one possible explanation and not necessary to explain it. You can't separate the two in your mind only because you're making assumptions about them. One assumption you're making is that an afterlife has anything to do with the Christian concept of heaven which necessarily has to do with the Christian god. It could just as well have to do with Shiva or Thor, or with purely natural processes, if you're going to speculate about it.
As to the rest of your response, thanks for sharing honestly. I appreciate the insight into your thoughts.
While I don't share your views about NDEs providing evidence for life after death, it's at least marginally a more defensible position than "the Bible says so".
When I give these explanations they have absolutely nothing to do with the Christian god which I don't believe exists. The Christian god is Yahweh a pagan tribal war god that was an offshoot of the Elohim deities that existed pre-Hebrew times. Abraham, if he existed originated somewhere in the Hindu regions and made his way westward for whatever reasons to the lands around what is today Jordan, Lebanon and Israel. I cannot fathom a reason why a God or Supreme Being would create us, only that there has to be some accounting for millions of NDE's besides "It's all in their minds". NDE's and the fact we're here against all odds are the only things I have to convince me there's something beyond this life, but it most certainly is nothing like the picture the Bible paints of heaven where we're all falling down and worshiping God and Jesus 24/7 and singing praises and hymns to him nonstop. I've never heard of anything more ridiculous in my life....or rather my afterlife.
ETA: Most folks attribute the creation of life to a god. But I think it possible that life created god.
I can't quite wrap my head around that. I don't understand where life comes from, if not from life.
So, to me, Life = God and my brain reads your sentence as "...God created god" or "...Life created life". Which to me makes sense in that I almost always come back to a procreation scenario in my head when it comes to God, and the idea that our reality is an offspring of some sort of a greater (or more mature) Reality, and is in the process of 'becoming'. But I don't think that's how you mean it?
I can't quite wrap my head around that. I don't understand where life comes from, if not from life.
So, to me, Life = God and my brain reads your sentence as "...God created god" or "...Life created life". Which to me makes sense in that I almost always come back to a procreation scenario in my head when it comes to God, and the idea that our reality is an offspring of some sort of a greater (or more mature) Reality, and is in the process of 'becoming'. But I don't think that's how you mean it?
Pleroo, I'll DM or email you with a few thoughts rather than derail the thread further.
Pleroo, I'll DM or email you with a few thoughts rather than derail the thread further.
Since this thread is supposed to be about what caused ex-Christians to lose their faith, I really hope you'll post your comments here in public, rather than just DM Pleroo. I don't see them as off topic but as pertinent to the discussion.
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What did the desiring?
Incisive as always.
