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According to Christianity, I'm drowning because God is holding my head under water. God offers to let me live if I obey him unconditionally. He's like a mafia boss.
Loving this guy would be a classic symptom of Stockholm Syndrome.
You're drowning because God gave mankind free will and man made a bad choice.
Your car manufacturer sends you a notice than all their cars have been recalled. Please bring your car in for a free repair. Don't wait too long, as this problem is serious. You ignore the notice because you don't see a problem. Your engine catches on fire and destroys your car. Whose fault is it?
A more realistic analogy would be:
You read on face-book that every car in the world was manufactured defectively and will burst into flames at some point in time. The article goes on to say that the manufacturer intentionally wrecked and totalled his own personal car as a solution to the malfunction in all the other cars. Simply by believing this story, you will be free from the built-in malfunction. No one has ever seen this manufacturer, no one has seen any cars burst into flames, the way to avoid the malfunction seems nonsensical, but a lot of people believe the story and insist that you should also.
"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." -Jesus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Jimmie, if any of us actually still believed that to be true and then said, "No thanks, not interested," then you could say that we had "rejected" Jesus. By definition, however, as "former believers" that means we stopped believing it, not that we rejected it. And then there are those who never believed it in the first place. Again, no rejection involved, simply a lack of belief.
For us, obviously, we don't believe it matters either way. But for you who still do believe that people will be sent to hell for rejecting Jesus, I would think that would be an important distinction to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
The point was that not believing something is true does not equal rejection. Capiche?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
If it's true, will it matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Well, according to you, yes. You said that only if people reject Jesus will they be condemned to hell. Most people do NOT "reject" Jesus*. They simply do not believe that Jesus, as described in the bible and/or with all the various doctrines that Christianity ties to him, exists.
It'd be like saying that you "reject" Vishnu/Krishna. Unless you believe Vishnu/Krishna actually exists, how can you be guilty of rejecting him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Jimmie, do you stand behind what you said (that only those who REJECT Jesus will be condemned to hell), or did you want to retract it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Come now jimmie. You responded to the quote which referenced "hell":
Anyway, you are saying that ONLY if a person rejects Jesus are they condemned to hell. Then you ask me if it will matter to God? Well, you tell me ... if what you say is true, will it matter to God that a person didn't reject Jesus, but simply did not believe what the bible and/or Christianity says about Jesus?
Actually, the words 'unbelief' and 'rejection' can be understood as synonymous terms as can be seen in a thesaurus such as the following one.
You read on face-book that every car in the world was manufactured defectively and will burst into flames at some point in time. The article goes on to say that the manufacturer intentionally wrecked and totalled his own personal car as a solution to the malfunction in all the other cars. Simply by believing this story, you will be free from the built-in malfunction. No one has ever seen this manufacturer, no one has seen any cars burst into flames, the way to avoid the malfunction seems nonsensical, but a lot of people believe the story and insist that you should also.
Which means that you think God will condemn people to hell because they don't somehow accept as true something which they believe is a lie.
I'm not interested in getting into a discussion on the matter. I simply demonstrated that your argument that 'rejection' doesn't equal 'unbelief' is fallacious.
I'm not interested in getting into a discussion on the matter. I simply demonstrated that your argument that 'rejection' doesn't equal 'unbelief' is fallacious.
Your car manufacturer sends you a notice than all their cars have been recalled. Please bring your car in for a free repair. Don't wait too long, as this problem is serious. You ignore the notice because you don't see a problem. Your engine catches on fire and destroys your car. Whose fault is it?
I love these!
How about this...someone claiming to be the manufacturer of your car wants you to give them the keys so he can fix the "defect". He calls it a free repair but he needs your credit card information just so he can make an appointment. He says it is hurry...hurry...hurry...don't think about this...don't investigate. In fact, even questioning him about the defect will cause the vehicle to burst into flames taking a school bus full of children with it. So Jimmy, why do you hate those school children so much? What kind of person wants to see schoold children burn to death? You must be evil!
My mom talks like that all the time. Her favorite one for the Watchtower pushing back the time frame for Armageddon is "Well, if you were in labor you wouldn't think you where not really having a baby just because it was taking a long time." Cheers to 120 years of labor mom. Maybe it's a tumor.
Which means that you think God will condemn people to hell because they don't somehow accept as true something which they believe is a lie.
No, it means some people choose to not believe God or trust Jesus Christ ... and, as a result, reap the consequences God has promised for such rebellion against His ways and truths. The frequent attempts to make God seem arbitrary or vengeful for being faithful to His promises is disingenuous and dishonest.
Was God wrong for allowing Adam and Eve to die as the promised consequence of their actions? --- This is not a matter of innocently "not accepting something as true." It is a matter of judging God and His revealed character, nature, plan, purpose and promises.
Where else does one gain this information, except for God's revealed and inspired Word, Scripture/the Bible. Those on this forum who repeatedly pretend to believe God, but actually only believe a non-Biblical God, have chosen their "god" and it is not the God of Scripture. Is it now vengeful and arbitrary for God to reject them? (Hosea 4:6, Jeremiah 15:6, Job 36:12, Proverbs 5:23, 10:21).
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