Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Originally Posted by thrillobyte The BIG problem with taking your approach of Paul teaching that believers will bodily literal fly into the skies is we must then acknowledge that Paul and the apostles believed the rapture would happen in their lifetime. Paul says "Then WE (you and I) which are alive and remaining...." John said, "For the time is short..." It was all based on Jesus' botched prophecies, to Caiaphias "I am. And you, Caiaphas shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and majesty..." and to his disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled."
Of course Jesus never returned in his generation as all the apostles and Paul believed he would and so Christian leaders were left in a conundrum: "What do we do about Jesus not returning as he prophesied he would????" "I know, we'll make it a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled." And that' how you and the others fell for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Jesus never promised that He would return in that present generation, even though as far as the church was concerned, He could have returned at that time.
Instead, when after His resurrection the apostles asked Him if it was at that time He would restore the kingdom to Israel, He told them that it wasn't for them to know the times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority (Acts 1:6-7). That left open the possibility that a very long period of time might pass before He returned.
Furthermore, Jesus did not say to His disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled." What He said in Matthew 24:34 was that the generation that saw the signs of which He had been speaking would be the one that would not pass away until all those things took place. And the reference was not to the rapture of the Church, but to His second advent at the end of the Tribulation.
As for Jesus' statement to the members of the Sanhedrin, as recorded in Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62,He was not telling them that He would return in their lifetimes. Nothing about what He said suggests that. Rather, Jesus was looking forward into the future when He would come in judgment, and He was saying that from now on, in the future, they would only see Him when they stood before Him in judgment. They were judging Jesus as He now stood before them, but in the future, He would judge them.
And yes, Paul did teach a literal rapture or catching up of the church which would take place at the same time as the resurrection of the church.
Originally Posted by thrillobyte The BIG problem with taking your approach of Paul teaching that believers will bodily literal fly into the skies is we must then acknowledge that Paul and the apostles believed the rapture would happen in their lifetime. Paul says "Then WE (you and I) which are alive and remaining...." John said, "For the time is short..." It was all based on Jesus' botched prophecies, to Caiaphias "I am. And you, Caiaphas shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and majesty..." and to his disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled."
Of course Jesus never returned in his generation as all the apostles and Paul believed he would and so Christian leaders were left in a conundrum: "What do we do about Jesus not returning as he prophesied he would????" "I know, we'll make it a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled." And that' how you and the others fell for it.
What did I tell you, folks??
The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation: neither shall they say, "Look, over here!", or "See, there it is over there!", for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:20-21). Therefore, by the Testimony of Yeshua himself, it comes to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no man knows.
Luke 19:11-20
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
It is private, personal, individual, and to each in his or her own appointed times:
Then came the first . . .
Then came the second . . .
And then came another . . .
And so on, and so on, to this day and beyond . . .
When the Son of man comes it will not be televised . . .
Hello all, I just would like to ask some questions about the Bible prophecy and about when Jesus may return; first of all, had the third temple been rebuilt? Secondly, has Damascus been destroyed? I realize that a lot of Christians believe that Jesus will return for the rapture before the great tribulation happens, but I just would like some insights as to what believing Christians on here believe as far as when the end will come, that is, if it isn't here already. Will Jesus return in February of next year, as several online sources have suggested? All opinions and thoughts on this subject are welcome.
[quote=Mike555;46385979]Jesus never promised that He would return in that present generation, even though as far as the church was concerned, He could have returned at that time.
RESPONSE: He did so promise in several passages. For example:
"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. 35* Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."
You can't seriously expect people to waste an hour of their lives watching a goofy YouTube video. As I recall, Bush was the antiChrist, and so was Tony Blair, Obama, and a few others. Stupid.
Maybe you and all the other antiChrist kids can get together and start an AntiChrist of the Month Club or something.
I am far more concerned about what people are letting the Internet do to their brains than I am about the end if the world.
The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation:
It is private, personal, individual, and to each in his or her own appointed times:
Then came the first . . .
Then came the second . . .
And then came another . . .
And so on, and so on, to this day and beyond . . .
When the Son of man comes it will not be televised . . .
Well, if this is the case then why are Mike and the other rapturites and Armageddonites waiting for a literal, physical, observable return of Jesus in the clouds to rapture all Christian believers? And leave everyone else behind to face horrible judgments upon the earth with giant flying scorpions with lion heads stinging everyone and hail balls the size of boulders pelting the earth and talking lampstands and Moses and Elijah resurrected and standing in the streets preaching and then getting killed and then being resurrected again!
I mean if you get into the nitty-gritty of what they actually believe will happen it looks exactly like a Jason and the Argonauts mythological fantasy epic out of Hollywood, it is that ridiculous. Truthfully I'm ashamed to admit I fell for all this baloney for so many years and wasted so much money buying their trash books and contributing to making the prophecy pimps like Hal Lindsey so wealthy. And I'm anonymous!!!!! Think of how embarrassed to death I'd be if everyone knew who I really was and believed all this rubbish!!!!!
Jesus never promised that He would return in that present generation, even though as far as the church was concerned, He could have returned at that time.
Instead, when after His resurrection the apostles asked Him if it was at that time He would restore the kingdom to Israel, He told them that it wasn't for them to know the times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority (Acts 1:6-7). That left open the possibility that a very long period of time might pass before He returned.
Furthermore, Jesus did not say to His disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled." What He said in Matthew 24:34 was that the generation that saw the signs of which He had been speaking would be the one that would not pass away until all those things took place. And the reference was not to the rapture of the Church, but to His second advent at the end of the Tribulation.
As for Jesus' statement to the members of the Sanhedrin, as recorded in Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62, He was not telling them that He would return in their lifetimes. Nothing about what He said suggests that. Rather, Jesus was looking forward into the future when He would come in judgment, and He was saying that from now on, in the future, they would only see Him when they stood before Him in judgment. They were judging Jesus as He now stood before them, but in the future, He would judge them.
And yes, Paul did teach a literal rapture or catching up of the church which would take place at the same time as the resurrection of the church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotles child
Jesus never promised that He would return in that present generation, even though as far as the church was concerned, He could have returned at that time.
RESPONSE: He did so promise in several passages. For example:
"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. 35* Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."
I already addressed the fact that Jesus was not referring to His own generation, but to the future generation of people who would see the signs which He had just spoken of in Matthew 24. Those signs are to take place during the Tribulation. In other words, Jesus said that the generation that goes through the Tribulation will also see His return.
Jesus had already stated, refer to Matthew 21:43, that the kingdom would be taken away from the people to whom He was speaking. The kingdom would be taken away from that current generation and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. That first century generation would not see the return of Jesus and the establishment of the kingdom of God on the earth. As was also already pointed out, after His resurrection, Jesus was asked by the apostles if it was at that present time that the kingdom would be restored to Israel. Jesus replied that it was not for them to know the times and the seasons which the Father has fixed by His own authority (Acts 1:6-7). This implies that a great deal of time might pass before He returned.
Jesus did not promise to return within the lifetime of the generation of people to whom He was speaking.
"Furthermore, Jesus did not say to His disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled." What He said in Matthew 24:34 was that the generation that saw the signs of which He had been speaking would be the one that would not pass away until all those things took place. And the reference was not to the rapture of the Church, but to His second advent at the end of the Tribulation".
RESPONSE: Definition of the word "this" from Merriam-Webster:
This - the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned
"As for Jesus' statement to the members of the Sanhedrin, as recorded in Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62, He was not telling them that He would return in their lifetimes. Nothing about what He said suggests that. Rather, Jesus was looking forward into the future when He would come in judgment, and He was saying that from now on, in the future, they would only see Him when they stood before Him in judgment. They were judging Jesus as He now stood before them, but in the future, He would judge them."
Matthew 26:64
64 Jesus said to him in reply, “You have said so.[a] But I tell you:
From now on you will see ‘the Son of Man
seated at the right hand of the Power’
and ‘coming on the clouds of heaven.’”
Both use the plain meaning of words. "You will see..." and "This"
So attempting to change what Jesus meant isn't correct. Going by exactly what he said shows that Jesus was wrong in both cases.
Last edited by Aristotles child; 12-03-2016 at 08:49 AM..
Reason: typo
"Furthermore, Jesus did not say to His disciples "This generation we are in right now shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled." What He said in Matthew 24:34 was that the generation that saw the signs of which He had been speaking would be the one that would not pass away until all those things took place. And the reference was not to the rapture of the Church, but to His second advent at the end of the Tribulation".
RESPONSE: Definition of the word "this" from Merriam-Webster:
This - the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned
"As for Jesus' statement to the members of the Sanhedrin, as recorded in Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62, He was not telling them that He would return in their lifetimes. Nothing about what He said suggests that. Rather, Jesus was looking forward into the future when He would come in judgment, and He was saying that from now on, in the future, they would only see Him when they stood before Him in judgment. They were judging Jesus as He now stood before them, but in the future, He would judge them."
Matthew 26:64
64 Jesus said to him in reply, “You have said so.[a] But I tell you:
From now on you will see ‘the Son of Man
seated at the right hand of the Power’
and ‘coming on the clouds of heaven.’”
Both use the plain meaning of words. "You will see..." and "This"
So attempting to change what Jesus meant isn't correct. Going by exactly what he said shows that Jesus was wrong in both cases.
I'm not the one who's changing what Jesus meant. As I said, Jesus had already stated that the kingdom was to be taken from that current generation of people (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, 'This generation' in Matthew 24:34 is not a reference to Jesus' own generation, but to the particular generation which would see the signs which He had just spoken of.
I'm not the one who's changing what Jesus meant. As I said, Jesus had already stated that the kingdom was to be taken from that current generation of people (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, 'This generation' in Matthew 24:34 is not a reference to Jesus' own generation, but to the particular generation which would see the signs which He had just spoken of.
RESPONSE:
No. It was clearly his generation which he said would see the signs. Perhaps you overlooked Mark 13.
Mark 13:24-30 The Coming of the Son of Man.
24
j “But in those days after that tribulation
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light,k
25
and the stars will be falling from the sky,
and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26
* l And then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory,
27
and then he will send out the angels and gather [his] elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.
The Lesson of the Fig Tree.
28
m “Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.
29
In the same way, when you see these things happening, know that he is near, at the gates.
30
[b]Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.
Last edited by Aristotles child; 12-03-2016 at 11:00 AM..
Reason: add quote
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"I know, we'll make it a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."
And that' how you and the others fell for it. 
Jesus' demonstrable errors
