Alternative Orthodoxy (St Francis) (Jesus, Bible, Episcopal, point of view)
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You dodged the fact that your denomination accepts the Apostle John's words regarding Christ, but regards his later epistles and the Revelation as not from God.
First of all, I don't know where you get your idea that everyone in the entire Episcopal Church is in complete agreement with everyone else on such matters. One of the features of the denomination (and 'English Christianity' in general) is that disagreement and questioning are accepted as part of our human condition. The prominent feature is not right belief. It is communion and participation in worship. So two scholars could disagree on a point in scripture and yet come together in as part of the body of Christ in communion.
As to your claim above, this doesn't make sense to me.
How does one preclude the other? No writing is from God Writing is a human activity. The gospel of John tells of Christ from the author's point of view. The epistles are written to either specific churches or in the case of 1 John, as a general instruction. All of these things are written by a person (and maybe another person who added on, some speculate, but that's a different conversation). Revelation appears to be written by a different person and is generally regarded as an encoded condemnation of the Roman empire in general and Nero in particular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Your explanation is confusing at best. What gives the epistles any authority?
Nothing, except what individuals learn from them that deepens their faith and/or practice of it. They have no authority in and of themselves.
Jimmie, I have asked you repeatedly to stop posting in my thread. I know you are reading this.
This is proof that you are deliberately trying to start arguments. Please take your Bible thumping elsewhere.
You have no right to ask any such thing. This is the Christianity forum and all Christians are allowed to post, period. Bible thumping is de rigueur.
You have no right to ask any such thing. This is the Christianity forum and all Christians are allowed to post, period. Bible thumping is de rigueur.
Yeah, I don't think you can forbid anyone to post in a thread because you started it. You just put the person on ignore if you don't want to see their posts.
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
Jesus referred many times to the prophets who spoke about Him.
What about the false prophets? There were many of those and there still are today.
And what does this scripture mean?
"All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them."- John10:8
and this one:
"'How can you say, "We are wise because we have the word of the LORD," when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?" - Jeremiah 8:8
First of all, I don't know where you get your idea that everyone in the entire Episcopal Church is in complete agreement with everyone else on such matters. One of the features of the denomination (and 'English Christianity' in general) is that disagreement and questioning are accepted as part of our human condition. The prominent feature is not right belief. It is communion and participation in worship. So two scholars could disagree on a point in scripture and yet come together in as part of the body of Christ in communion.
As to your claim above, this doesn't make sense to me.
How does one preclude the other? No writing is from God Writing is a human activity. The gospel of John tells of Christ from the author's point of view. The epistles are written to either specific churches or in the case of 1 John, as a general instruction. All of these things are written by a person (and maybe another person who added on, some speculate, but that's a different conversation). Revelation appears to be written by a different person and is generally regarded as an encoded condemnation of the Roman empire in general and Nero in particular.
Nothing, except what individuals learn from them that deepens their faith and/or practice of it. They have no authority in and of themselves.
I got it from the bolded below. Yet, you don't hesitate to quote Jesus, whose words were written down by some of the same writers as the epistles. In one area, you trust the writer, in another you don't. Seems odd that you regard the epistles as not from God, when some of them walked with Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
The Episcopal Church, and others like it, believe that we are to use the ability to reason that God gave us. We know the epistles were written by a human in a certain time and place for a certain reason, and study them with that in mind. We equate neither the author nor his work with God. Your tiresome quoting demonstrates nothing but your own self-righteous pride.
Jesus's words to love God and others trump all else.
Jimmie, the fact that you are suddenly upping the frequency of your posts as soon as I address you is proof to me that you are (1) obnoxiously pretending to ignore me, and (2) have no belief in a god that could be aware of your daily actions.
I'm agnostic on that, but you must a pure atheist.
I got it from the bolded below. Yet, you don't hesitate to quote Jesus, whose words were written down by some of the same writers as the epistles. In one area, you trust the writer, in another you don't. Seems odd that you regard the epistles as not from God, when some of them walked with Jesus.
I am not sure if you are deliberately pretending to misunderstand or if you really don't. I'm not going to keep going in circles with this.
I'm just really surprised that Episcopalians feel that way about the epistles. I did not know that.
I don't know what you mean by "that way", and as I've already explained, there's no one way all Episcopalians can be said to feel about scriptures, except in general, as I said, that the scriptures are not equal to God or the literal, dictated words of God. They are either ABOUT God or related in some way to belief in God and the practices of those who believe.
I think there's something basic you are missing in all this that gets lost in the fundamentalist vs. nonfundamentalist view of Scripture. While we do not believe the scriptures are the literal word of God READING them in the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit is what makes the difference between the scriptures being the Word Of God or just words on a page.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 04-09-2017 at 12:27 PM..
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