The difficulty of salvation (Gomorrah, hell, Sodom, beliefs)
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18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. -Jesus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
As often as you quote it, you never seem to notice that that passage does NOT say that God condemned anyone.
We are condemned because our creator is holy (pure) and we are sinful (impure).
Isaiah 59
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
From Matthew Henry's commentary:
First, A certain condemnation. They are as sure to be condemned in the judgment of the great day as if they were condemned already. Secondly, A present condemnation. The curse has already taken hold of them; the wrath of God now fastens upon them. They are condemned already, for their own hearts condemn them. Thirdly, A condemnation grounded upon their former guilt: He is condemned already, for he lies open to the law for all his sins; the obligation of the law is in full force, power, and virtue, against him, because he is not by faith interested in the gospel defeasance; he is condemned already, because he has not believed. Unbelief may truly be called the great damning sin, because it leaves us under the guilt of all our other sins; it is a sin against the remedy, against our appeal.
I believe that there is wrath to come but it is aimed at those who say they know God but do not.
The whole bible is spoken to Gods people and the transgression was Gods people not knowing who he is, those are the sons of disobedience - "Israel"
All people will be judged on their deeds and also all nations will be judged in righteousness.
Christians do not get a free pass because they say lord, lord. We are to study to show ourselves approved, and the traditional Christianity belief that the kingdom of heaven is about Christians going to heaven takes Jesus out of the Hebrews scriptures which was about a nation of kings and priests on earth
Exo 19:3 And Moses went up to God. And Jehovah called to him from the mountain, saying, You shall say this to the house of Jacob, and tell it to the sons of Israel.
Exo 19:4 You have seen what I did to Egypt; and I bore you on wings of eagles and brought you to Me.
Exo 19:5 And now if listening you will listen to My voice, and will keep My covenant, you shall become a special treasure to Me above all the nations, for all the earth is Mine.
Exo 19:6 And you shall become a kingdom of priests for Me, a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the sons of Israel.
Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deu 4:3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
Deu 4:4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
Deu 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Deu 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
Deu 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
Deu 4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
Deu 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
The OT is much more than about nations of kings and priests. It main topic is about the love of God and His coming Messiah.
I believe that there is wrath to come but it is aimed at those who say they know God but do not.
It is also aimed at thsoe who refuse to acknowledge God.
Quote:
The whole bible is spoken to Gods people and the transgression was Gods people not knowing who he is, those are the sons of disobedience - "Israel"
IMO the main transression was idol worship and not trusting god to tgake care of His peop;le.
Quote:
All people will be judged on their deeds and also all nations will be judged in righteousness.
Christians wont: Jn 3:18 & 5:24)
Quote:
Christians do not get a free pass because they say lord, lord. We are to study to show ourselves approved, and the traditional Christianity belief that the kingdom of heaven is about Christians going to heaven takes Jesus out of the Hebrews scriptures which was about a nation of kings and priests on earth
Christians do study to show themselves approved. That qualifies us to say Lord, Lord.
Quote:
Exo 19:3 And Moses went up to God. And Jehovah called to him from the mountain, saying, You shall say this to the house of Jacob, and tell it to the sons of Israel.
Exo 19:4 You have seen what I did to Egypt; and I bore you on wings of eagles and brought you to Me.
Exo 19:5 And now if listening you will listen to My voice, and will keep My covenant, you shall become a special treasure to Me above all the nations, for all the earth is Mine.
Exo 19:6 And you shall become a kingdom of priests for Me, a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the sons of Israel.
Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deu 4:3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
Deu 4:4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
Deu 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Deu 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
Deu 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
Deu 4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
Deu 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
Where does that say that lost means you are not saved from the wrath to come. It is mind boggling how you fundies try and hammer square pegs into round holes.
What man lost was his true identity when he lost sight of God who is his true identity(an identity created in the image of God), and having lost it, he lost sight of that which sustains him....... abundant life and godliness, then he fumbled around in a life of darkness seeking what he knew he lacked in all manner of things including his own concept of God which he created out of the darkness he lived in. A concept you bible fundamentalists have attached yourself too, to the point you love that concept created in darkness and will consider nothing else, because anything other than the concept of God you love is darkness in your eyes.
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
What did the thief steal kill and destroy, omega, Jimmie and nX?
Do you really not understand what "lost" in the Bible means? That is unbelievable.
Read Luke 19:10. If you still don't understand it, I will be happy to explain it to you.
All you are doing his quoting wrath verses as if lost means not being saved. God as never lost anything,but because you view God from a concept of darkness, you read for example ...... God calling out to Adam "where are you" as if he didn't where he was.
Man thought God viewed him differently from the fall onwards and went and hid himself behind a concept that deceived him into thinking God was not only mad with him but separated himself from him.
The wrath of God is nothing more than the poor concept man as of God, which is, God is mad with him, wants to punish him for missing the mark and against him until in the case of bible fundamentalists you believe in him, or in the case of those who think they can earn God's love by good works. He loves you regardless of both of these cases.
Where the Sheol do you come up with this stuff. Unbelievable!!!!!
Te verse Jimmie quoted is not about God's intent. It is about a literal fact.
How silly. God loves everyone---For God so love the WORLD.
But he has a hard time forgiving them until they say they believe him and love him too.
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