Isaiah 53 and the Suffering Righteous Servant who dies for the sin of the Transgressors (preaching, believing)

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Twinv

Ezekiel 18:20 NRS
20 The person who sins shall die. A child shall not suffer for the iniquity of a parent, nor a parent suffer for the iniquity of a child; the righteousness of the righteous shall be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be his own.

Maybe you misunderstand.

And there you go...

Originally Posted by Jerwade

https://outreachjudaism.org/gods-suf...ant-isaiah-53/

That is a good link: Here is another:

http://thejewishhome.org/counter/Isa53JP.pdf

It is clearly, from context of Isaiah, history, and exegesis of the immediate passage - ISRAEL.

[Orion Rules]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

That is a good link: Here is another:

http://thejewishhome.org/counter/Isa53JP.pdf

It is clearly, from context of Isaiah, history, and exegesis of the immediate passage - ISRAEL.

Philip and the Ethiopian

26Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Get up and go south to the desert road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.”

27So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official in charge of the entire treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship,

28and on his return was sitting in his chariot, reading Isaiah the prophet.

29The Spirit said to Philip, “Go over to that chariot and stay by it.”

30So Philip ran up and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

31“How can I,” he said, “unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

32The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:
“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,
so He did not open His mouth.

33In His humiliation He was deprived of justice.
Who can recount His descendants?
For His life was removed from the earth.”a

34“Tell me,” said the eunuch, “who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?”

35Then Philip began with this very Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

36As they traveled along the road and came to some water, the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?”b

38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing.

40But Philip appeared at Azotus and traveled through that region, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he came to Caesarea.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++
And every tongue shall confess and every knee shall bow that Christ is Lord of All

That death did not come save to destroy and hold back many to see Autumn is Fall

Of the law of Moses and his followers who must paste back pages of history for a law

That animal blood sacrifice never atoned for a single wrong but rather added to it laws

One upon another miserable edict of this is common this is unclean because of dietaries

All they could smoke up while animals are part of the church for Adam gave them names

The confusion is that Justice never cared and that God never gave it Ten Commandments

That Jesus lived by those and was killed by the same spirit that is out to make adjustments

Where he said as he warned man to not to follow those who would take you into the ditches

Who cares what the NT says AFTER THE FACT. Their twisting interpretation at best was a modified midrash on Is. 53. Read the links and learn something before emotionally responding with your biased religiosity. It is no wonder that the NT writers made stories about their Jesus that fit this interpretation from a previous text that had a midrash interpretation as Messiah. Whoopi Dooo! Maybe get a little perspective on the evolution of thought in this regard.

[Orion Rules]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Who cares what the NT says AFTER THE FACT. Their twisting interpretation at best was a modified midrash on Is. 53. Read the links and learn something before emotionally responding with your biased religiosity. It is no wonder that the NT writers made stories about their Jesus that fit this interpretation from a previous text that had a midrash interpretation as Messiah. Whoopi Dooo! Maybe get a little perspective on the evolution of thought in this regard.

And so who cares about what you have as stated about a single thing

Whoopi Dooo that if what you bring to the table appears to be nothing

When it is meted all zeros '0+0' do you have glasses to edit this reading

Keep it up bring it on show how a blasphemer disguises himself writhing

How many devils and apostates exist inside of the same one called Legion

"Maybe get a little perspective" for regards you did say so here is it fusion:

The con is such a disaster area worried about how he will keep a foundation

He claims nothing but another intellectual exercise that equals dysfunction

The dysfunctional feels useless except when he may regard Jesus as sucking

His power away as the hotter he feels about himself a notoriety is for shaking

His fists at a table several papers there where someone else writes journalism

Is not an arm of the government but is tied into the right to have it be NEWS 1

Did you ever hear how what you have to say is not just frustrated but slacking

For the laziest talent out there will bury his hope no one digs it up for a taking

By the way what is a mid rash for if that is what you have you're part evolution

Nothing meant by it just dish more insults out for Christians for you are Satan's

Sure you'll love the compliment because that is part of what is called Bohemian

Part of the government apparatus that has not yet been fully satisfied takes form

The calculus of a circle holds a square circle that God never was Jesus or a person

He was never real just another Bible character someone decided to make him Son

Where the knowledge of the Kingdom of God will smash the heretical temples down

Is Horus any reminder of where Sobek goes under the water while one flies heavens

'Scale the world for evil for it has taken solitude from the Earth God made for Heaven'

Gee, who would have thunk - insults disguised as Holy Doctrine and hidden behind verses. The way of the religious who say they love truth but can't seem to handle one ounce of it. I could really not care less what you think but for the sake of what is true I post the facts on Is.53. Stop your

This guy does not know what a midrash is and yet proceeds to think he knows something of the Bible. LMAO! If he would have read the links as suggested he might have learned something. But hey ignorance is bliss!

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon

thanks Mike. one might also add that IF one considers the writings of the "New Testament" as worthy of consideration there are many more statements that seem to indicate that Jesus believed that He was the true Messiah foretold in the Torah for example:


"for I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see what you see and did not see it and hear what you hear and did not hear it" (Luke 10:24 and Matt 13:17).


OTOH, it can also be noted that Jesus was under no allusions as to how much of "stiff necked"
Israel had treated many of the prophets and ultimately Himself:


"Jerusalem, Jerusalem who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her!" (Luke 13:34)


"woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! you build tombs for the prophets and decorate monuments for the righteous. and you say, 'if we had lived in the days of our fathers we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' ...you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets." (Matt. 23:30)


that said, most likely ALL of us who claim to be Christians and "followers of Christ" have (just like so many in Israel then) at some time and in some way rejected Christ and His message of repentance and reformation of life shown forth as love and forgiveness of others for love of that same Christ Who has forgiven us.


we can praise Christ and his morals and ethics and good and holy example and bewail the hard heartedness of those who ignored and persecuted Him from here to Sunday BUT after speaking those words of praise for God in Christ and peace and love for all peoples we are STILL called to actually go about "DOING the work of My Father" in patience, faith, hope, love, and mercy.


in the peace of Christ.












"

Those who don't regard the New Testament to be worthy of consideration will dismiss what Jesus said, and what the apostles said about Him. But both the New and Old Testament are the written word of God and are trustworthy.

Jesus certainly knew Himself to be the Messiah, and He knew that Isaiah 53 had to be fulfilled in Him. When Peter, in reply to Jesus' question when He asked the disciples who they thought He was, told Jesus that He was the Christ (the Messiah), the Son of the living God, Jesus told him that he was blessed because the Father had revealed that to him (Matthew 16: 15-17).

And in John 8:24 Jesus told the unbelieving Pharisees that if they did not believe that He was ''I am,'' they would die in their sins. Jesus' reference to Himself as 'I am' has to be taken either as a self reference to the fact that He was the Messiah, or that He was referring to His deity.

I agree with your statement about doing the work of the Father in patience, faith, hope, love, and mercy even though it's often easier said than done. With some of the people on this forum my patience has just about run out.

[Wardendresden]

Scripture is interpreted from the future backwards. Isaiah 53 wasn't seen by those prior to Jesus as pointing to Jesus, but AFTER the resurrection the early christians began to look back to see if there were any clues.

It's kind of like Jesus quoting Exodus 3:6 as verifying their would be a resurrection from the dead. You and I reading it today don't see that, but Jesus did--and apparently so did His adversaries as none of them questioned Him on it.

Life is lived forwards but it is understood backwards. The writer of Isaiah had something completely different in his mind as he penned those words to his own generation. But those who had met Jesus saw something else--and a reinterpretation was brought on.

Don't think so? Start reading the interpretation of different verses of Scripture from a Jewish perspective. Their Mishnah and later Talmud has been reinterpreted often from the base it began from:

The problem with a written document, of course, is that it becomes frozen. The genius of the Talmud — and the later development after the Talmud — is that it never was frozen. It was and remains a living Oral Law. Every age and every society breathes life into it all over again.

The credit for that goes to Rabbi Judah the Prince who put together the Mishnah in such a way that it would be a vehicle for a living document not a mausoleum to a past that was no longer alive.

The Mishnah

So the early christians (Jews, primarily until after 70 CE) were simply doing what their Jewish ancestors had done--reinterpreting for their own times and out of their own experiences. The sad thing is that too many modern day christians fail to understand the importance of an inspired living document in the Bible. Instead it has become a set of inflexible, autocratic, antiquated rules to drown people as the Pharisees drowned their own people.

More is the pity.

[Orion Rules]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Gee, who would have thunk - insults disguised as Holy Doctrine and hidden behind verses. The way of the religious who say they love truth but can't seem to handle one ounce of it. I could really not care less what you think but for the sake of what is true I post the facts on Is.53. Stop your

This guy does not know what a midrash is and yet proceeds to think he knows something of the Bible. LMAO! If he would have read the links as suggested he might have learned something. But hey ignorance is bliss!

Who will be crying for underground bunkers. Wasn't that at least one of the messages? These are the last days. There is no ignorance is bliss. That is because there isn't.

I do not have to read it. Just because from you I would not. You bear rotten fruit. You insulted the testimony of the Christian Philip and called Christ a cult.

Christians do not need to listen to the greedy avarice of the most belligerent. That is at especially when God drops down 'don't'.

Zigzag back and forth God will be smashing all the temples of the satanic cults. Blood sacrifice is always lawless.

Isaiah 53 fits the Christ and that is all there is to it lost. So I am lost in Christ. Isaiah 66 is really it fates.


The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is practically all the world has ever tasted.

Those who wish things to stay the same will pound Christians with God never said.

Or that he said it when it was man who did so to make sure they never find rest.

He is God not a nation filled with issues that puts the world to constant tests.

The lie will keep coming back because the agenda is to wear out Christ's.

The same type that kept coming back to taunt and villify Christ's actions.

Because he threw them out of his Father's house has many mansions.

Acts chapter 8: the church must drive back every single angel fallen.


31“How can I,” he said, “unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

32The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:

“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,
so He did not open His mouth.

33In His humiliation He was deprived of justice.
Who can recount His descendants?
For His life was removed from the earth.”a

34“Tell me,” said the eunuch, “who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?”

35Then Philip began with this very Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

[georgeinbandonoregon]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Those who don't regard the New Testament to be worthy of consideration will dismiss what Jesus said, and what the apostles said about Him. But both the New and Old Testament are the written word of God and are trustworthy.

Jesus certainly knew Himself to be the Messiah, and He knew that Isaiah 53 had to be fulfilled in Him. When Peter, in reply to Jesus' question when He asked the disciples who they thought He was, told Jesus that He was the Christ (the Messiah), the Son of the living God, Jesus told him that he was blessed because the Father had revealed that to him (Matthew 16: 15-17).

And in John 8:24 Jesus told the unbelieving Pharisees that if they did not believe that He was ''I am,'' they would die in their sins. Jesus' reference to Himself as 'I am' has to be taken either as a self reference to the fact that He was the Messiah, or that He was referring to His deity.

I agree with your statement about doing the work of the Father in patience, faith, hope, love, and mercy even though it's often easier said than done. With some of the people on this forum my patience has just about run out.

Mike, well (and as I'm sure you know just as well or better than I), that's the thing it IS often so much easier said then done to (try to) REALLY be a Christian with all that rather annoying and difficult stuff about "turning the other cheek", "forgiving seventy times seven", and "loving one's neighbor as we love ourselves"---but hopefully God's grace (and mercy) IS indeed sufficient for us to take a serious shot at doing just that---even in situations like the various discussions/disputations/arguments/fights that happen on various topics like this one on this forum, LOL.


Orion, good reference about Philip and the eunuch and how he interpreted the scriptures to show how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies about a Messiah showing that this understanding of the "good news" of Jesus as "the Christ" was (for better or worse) right there from the beginning. again, think the challenge for all of us from the Ethiopian dude back then to yours truly here and now is to not just "confess that Jesus is Lord" but then really and truly live out that understanding in our lives by loving and serving God and our neighbor.


in the peace of Christ.