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Actually it does. Christmas is based on pagan worship, only the name has anything to actually do with Christ.
We are clearly told:
2 Corinthians 6:17-18 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
The Catholic church brought unclean pagan worship practices into the church and people keep "touching" them. Kinda like when Aaron made the golden calf and claimed the worship was to God. That is a warning example and everyone ignores it with Christmas.
Regardless of the origins of Christmas, or what its roots are, it is what a person makes it in the here and now. If a Christian wants to celebrate the birth of Jesus, even though He most likely wasn't born on December 25th, then there is nothing wrong with it. And if non Christian wants to celebrate the day as a secular holiday there's nothing wrong with that either.
You speak of the Roman Catholic church bringing unclean pagan worship into the church. But your own Jehovah's Witnesses whose beliefs you share whether or not you personally are a card carrying member of that group, (you said your brother is, and you defend their belief's) have some pretty unbiblical beliefs as well. So . . .
God defines what a Holy Day is not the RCC. The problem with Xmas more now than ever is that it is just a secular retail holiday with much of the pagan aspects of it still here, and a bit of religious aspect to it for a few that just slap Jesus name on top of everything.
Some basic questions you can ask on why am you are celebrating the birth of Christ?
Why am I celebrating the birth of Christ on December 25?
Why am I buying all these presents for people specifically for Dec 25?
Why do I have a giant tree in my living room ONLY during this time of the year?
Why is santa clause, elves, render, yule logs, missile toe, all a active part of my celebration of the Messiahs birth?
Where can I find this in the bible?
WHERE DID IT ORIGINATE FROM?
Why is my celebration of the Messiahs birth VERY similar to the festival of Saturnalia?
I personally have no problems with the day, even though commercialism and atheist have pretty much removed the religious aspect of the day, so I see it more of a day to be with family than anything else now, but others have mentioned, if the world wants to be part of your day so bad and have zero to do with you afterwards, something isnt right.
But trying to back modern day Christmas with a bible is wrong. Always remember, they thought they were honoring God with the golden calf back then too and you see how that turned out.
You are right.
The Golden Calf event was not just included as history but to warn us to avoid combining anything from pagan worship with our worship.
1 Corinthians 10:7-11 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. ... 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come
They are warnings of what we will be faced with and what to avoid.
I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrate with my life a Glorified Christ not the FLESH of Christ which profits nothing.
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
The Golden Calf event was not just included as history but to warn us to avoid combining anything from pagan worship with our worship.
1 Corinthians 10:7-11 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. ... 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come
They are warnings of what we will be faced with and what to avoid.
Yes, the Golden Calf was essentially the Israelites choosing to worship God they way they decided by making an idol (such as what Christmas is today) to worship God they way THEY chose instead of His way.
Exo 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
Yes, the Golden Calf was essentially the Israelites choosing to worship God they way they decided by making an idol (such as what Christmas is today) to worship God they way THEY chose instead of His way.
Exo 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
You know, you can celebrate Christmas and still be a genuine Christian.
Amen! It always amazes me how willing people seem to be to tell others what they are celebrating, jimmie. The only people who know WHAT they are celebrating are the celebrants. Only they know what they INTEND to celebrate. It is very puzzling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
It stems from the idea that forms and ceremonies have power in themselves rather than what we bring to them. It is that magic thinking you have mentioned.
I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrate with my life a Glorified Christ not the FLESH of Christ which profits nothing.
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
AMEN! How few have seen Him as He is!
Bottom line is, anything you can't lay down is an idol. If you can't lay down Christmas for Him, then it's an idol, period. Peace
I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrate with my life a Glorified Christ not the FLESH of Christ which profits nothing.
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Interesting thought. So the fact that the NT (particularly the Gospel of John) makes its main point that in Jesus God Himself became flesh is of no importance to you?
Sounds a little like Gnosticism to this Jesus follower. Jesus in the flesh and God as Spirit were one and the same for most Christians. That's why when the Bible has ancient stories in it, I view those stories through a Jesus lens. Do those stories look like Jesus, sound like Jesus, or perform like Jesus as God among us? If not, they haven't been spoken by God.
Matthew writes that Mary was"with child through the Holy Spirit" and would give birth to a son named"Immanuel" ( Matthew 1:18 Matthew 1:23 )."Immanuel" is a Hebrew word meaning "God with us" and expresses the wonder of the incarnation, that God "became flesh and made his dwelling among us" ( John 1:14)
Now if you don't believe God lived among us, then rightly the flesh He came in is nothing to you. But to us who believe, Jesus is more God than anything in the OT. He was in the flesh showing us how to be compassionate, how to love our neighbors, how to forgive others their trespasses against us, how to reach out to those thought unacceptable by the religious crowds, and how to lay down one's life if necessary. He is very God and the "flesh" He came in most certainly deserves recognition for God became a Man!!
---------------
Jesus’ only credentials were himself. He never wrote a book, commanded an army, held a political office, or owned property. He mostly traveled within a hundred miles of his village, attracting crowds who were amazed at his provocative words and stunning deeds.
Yet Jesus’ greatness was obvious to all those who saw and heard him. And while most great people eventually fade into history books, Jesus is still the focus of thousands of books and unparalleled media controversy. And much of that controversy revolves around the radical claims Jesus made about himself—claims that astounded both his followers and his adversaries.
It was primarily Jesus’ unique claims that caused him to be viewed as a threat by both the Roman authorities and the Jewish hierarchy. Although he was an outsider with no credentials or political power base, within three years, Jesus changed the world for the next 20 centuries. Other moral and religious leaders have left an impact—but nothing like that unknown carpenter’s son from Nazareth.
--------------- from a website entitled Y-Jesus
I don't care how many pagans worshiped Saturnalia. The Jews borrowed some of their feasts from Babylonian, Persian and Egyptian culture. But pagan (the other guy's god) holidays that are appropriated for new purposes become something "new." You might view it as being "born again" having the same foundation but transformed into a new person (festival/holy day) that in no way resembles the old. And isn't that what we want of other people? That they be transformed making them acceptable to our own community?
If one's heart is pure and he/she celebrates with spiritual integrity what kind of "god" is going to toss out his own worshipers?
Interesting thought. So the fact that the NT (particularly the Gospel of John) makes its main point that in Jesus God Himself became flesh is of no importance to you?
Sounds a little like Gnosticism to this Jesus follower. Jesus in the flesh and God as Spirit were one and the same for most Christians. That's why when the Bible has ancient stories in it, I view those stories through a Jesus lens. Do those stories look like Jesus, sound like Jesus, or perform like Jesus as God among us? If not, they haven't been spoken by God.
Matthew writes that Mary was"with child through the Holy Spirit" and would give birth to a son named"Immanuel" ( Matthew 1:18 Matthew 1:23 )."Immanuel" is a Hebrew word meaning "God with us" and expresses the wonder of the incarnation, that God "became flesh and made his dwelling among us" ( John 1:14)
Now if you don't believe God lived among us, then rightly the flesh He came in is nothing to you. But to us who believe, Jesus is more God than anything in the OT. He was in the flesh showing us how to be compassionate, how to love our neighbors, how to forgive others their trespasses against us, how to reach out to those thought unacceptable by the religious crowds, and how to lay down one's life if necessary. He is very God and the "flesh" He came in most certainly deserves recognition for God became a Man!!
---------------
Jesus’ only credentials were himself. He never wrote a book, commanded an army, held a political office, or owned property. He mostly traveled within a hundred miles of his village, attracting crowds who were amazed at his provocative words and stunning deeds.
Yet Jesus’ greatness was obvious to all those who saw and heard him. And while most great people eventually fade into history books, Jesus is still the focus of thousands of books and unparalleled media controversy. And much of that controversy revolves around the radical claims Jesus made about himself—claims that astounded both his followers and his adversaries.
It was primarily Jesus’ unique claims that caused him to be viewed as a threat by both the Roman authorities and the Jewish hierarchy. Although he was an outsider with no credentials or political power base, within three years, Jesus changed the world for the next 20 centuries. Other moral and religious leaders have left an impact—but nothing like that unknown carpenter’s son from Nazareth.
--------------- from a website entitled Y-Jesus
I don't care how many pagans worshiped Saturnalia. The Jews borrowed some of their feasts from Babylonian, Persian and Egyptian culture. But pagan (the other guy's god) holidays that are appropriated for new purposes become something "new." You might view it as being "born again" having the same foundation but transformed into a new person (festival/holy day) that in no way resembles the old. And isn't that what we want of other people? That they be transformed making them acceptable to our own community?
If one's heart is pure and he/she celebrates with spiritual integrity what kind of "god" is going to toss out his own worshipers?
The Jews were given those feasts by G-d. They didn't "borrow" anything. How is rebelling against His ways and His ordained feasts having "spiritual integrity"? Peace
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