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So long as Israel murders, starves, and abuses Palestinians, and demands to play a huge role in U.S. foreign policy, then I see no reason to respect them. Many of those in power in Israel are Jewish Atheists who clearly do not understand God's law of love in Christ.
I was once a Zionist. I’ve been to Israel twice and done the whole Hebraic roots thing - heck, even our 4 children have patriarch and OT king names and our daughter is called Tal (Hebrew for Dew) and we are not Jewish - but I find it harder and harder to believe that God gave them the land - I’d agree more with golgi1, that they ‘deeded it to themselves’.
Why is this?: Because Zionism is about Jewish supremacy. It has become about far more (on the world stage) than just a homeland for the Jews. Zionism was behind 9/11 and is behind the NWO. It has become a monster.
I actually agree with the OP about the false premise of a ‘Palestinian’ national identity - you cannot argue with the facts.
I have no problem with the universal God trying to get through to the Jewish patriarchs, but when one discerns the differences between the father of Jesus and the Old Testament Yahweh, there are staggeringly different characteristics, which leads me to conclude that the narrative was crafted by men with an agenda. Sure, there are some prophets with an heart after God, but all the conquest narrative, including blessing and cursing is drivel - Jesus wasn’t like that, and neither is His Father.
The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement (also known as the BDS Movement) is a global campaign promoting various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets what the campaign describes as Israel's obligations under international law", defined as withdrawal from the occupied territories, removal of the separation barrier in the West Bank, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and promotion of the right of return of Palestinian refugees.
The campaign, organized and coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee, was started on 9 July 2005 by over 170 Palestinian non-governmental organizations in support of the Palestinian cause for boycott of Israel, disinvestment from Israel and international sanctions against Israel, citing a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoing the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa. Protests and conferences in support of the campaign have been held in a number of countries around the world.
- Wikipedia
International Churches
Council of South African Independent Churches
British Methodist Church
Church of England
NCCA – National Council of Churches in Australia
US churches
Episcopal Church
Presbyterian Church
Methodist Church
United Church of Christ
Mennonite Church (Quakers)
Unitarian Universalist Church
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse..." - Genesis 12:3a
It is rather interesting to note that calls for Israel to obey international law do not themselves recognize that same law giving Israel the right to exist among the community of nations. Palestinian interests regularly utilize every form of anti-semitic venom to justify encroachment upon the land given to Israel by God.
It should be noted here that there is not, nor has there ever been an Arab nation called Palestine, yet the supporters of Palestinian claims seem to forget this historic fact. The area came to be called Palestine because of the wish of the Roman Empire to wrest the land's historic roots from the indigenous people and to imprint their own culture upon it. The Romans were only partly successful. When they left the name remained. Long before Rome named it, God had given it to the Jews.
American media, usually left wing in nature, stands with fascist interests in condemning the right of Israel to defend itself. As of this writing, the list of churches who support the BDS movement is incomplete due to the shifting nature of each group's internal politics. For instance, the Vatican seems to waver between accepting Palestinian interests and pretending to support peace in the region. There will be no peace in the region as long as one Jew remains alive.
God gave the State of Israel to the Jews as a homeland.
Those who attempt to stand against Israel may find themselves working against the very hand of God. Several churches in America have now added their closet anti-semitism to the greater interests of those who hate God and God's people Israel. May they suffer the curses they wish upon Israel, according to the Word of God they once claimed sacred.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
may God help their souls. we know this is coming and I found it odd you named 6 churches plus roman catholics make 7.. but there is always two sets .. two nations.. two bodies .. the spiritual truth and the spiritual lies and in the physical there will always be the physical truth and a physical lie of both the nations and the body of Christ. it is just the truth about wheat and tares told a hundred ways in scriptures.
Our Father ........... they kingdom come Thy will be done.....
Then you do not believe God is in control of things. The Bible says God would not prevent it from happening.
You have contradicted yourself - You say He’s in control, but doesn’t intervene - that isn't being in control.
My view is that God doesn’t need to control anything, and probably doesn’t control anything - He is spontaneous life, and that is Everything, now. On the other hand, man loves to control - it is a hallmark of the death realm, and is the essence behind Zionism.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 05-23-2018 at 04:25 PM..
You have contradicted yourself - You say He’s in control, but doesn’t intervene - that isn't being in control.
My view is that God doesn’t need to control anything, and probably doesn’t control anything - He is spontaneous life, and that is Everything, now. On the other hand, man loves to control - it is a hallmark of the death realm, and is the essence behind Zionism.
No, there is no contradiction. God got it started, and did not prevent the "birth".
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children. Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?” says the Lord.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
I was once a Zionist. I’ve been to Israel twice and done the whole Hebraic roots thing - heck, even our 4 children have patriarch and OT king names and our daughter is called Tal (Hebrew for Dew) and we are not Jewish - but I find it harder and harder to believe that God gave them the land - I’d agree more with golgi1, that they ‘deeded it to themselves’.
Why is this?: Because Zionism is about Jewish supremacy. It has become about far more (on the world stage) than just a homeland for the Jews. Zionism was behind 9/11 and is behind the NWO. It has become a monster.
I actually agree with the OP about the false premise of a ‘Palestinian’ national identity - you cannot argue with the facts.
I have no problem with the universal God trying to get through to the Jewish patriarchs, but when one discerns the differences between the father of Jesus and the Old Testament Yahweh, there are staggeringly different characteristics, which leads me to conclude that the narrative was crafted by men with an agenda. Sure, there are some prophets with an heart after God, but all the conquest narrative, including blessing and cursing is drivel - Jesus wasn’t like that, and neither is His Father.
Amazing that your eyes are opened after all you've been through, but I used to not be sure what Zionism is all about until the last several years and it has become more and more obvious. I used to go from one type of church to another trying to understand which one was the "right" one. I was seeking, but still, the spiritual darkness was over me. Around the time just before 9/11 God shined a bright light in my heart and opened the scriptures to me and since then I have been watching in amazement the world events unfolding. There are things that have happened that I never thought possible and a blinding of a large part of "Christian America" that I never realized would be so jaw-dropping. I never thought I'd see a day when Christians despised the poor and oppressed and adored the rich and powerful. But they do. It's really mind-blowing.
This list of warning signs of fascism is chilling and it seems to be going global and tied into a big knot.
Powerful and continuing nationalism.
Disdain for human rights.
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause.
Supremacy of the military.
Rampant sexism.
Controlled mass media.
Obsession with national security.
Religion and government intertwined.
The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement (also known as the BDS Movement) is a global campaign promoting various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets what the campaign describes as Israel's obligations under international law", defined as withdrawal from the occupied territories, removal of the separation barrier in the West Bank, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and promotion of the right of return of Palestinian refugees.
The campaign, organized and coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee, was started on 9 July 2005 by over 170 Palestinian non-governmental organizations in support of the Palestinian cause for boycott of Israel, disinvestment from Israel and international sanctions against Israel, citing a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoing the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa. Protests and conferences in support of the campaign have been held in a number of countries around the world.
- Wikipedia
International Churches
Council of South African Independent Churches
British Methodist Church
Church of England
NCCA – National Council of Churches in Australia
US churches
Episcopal Church
Presbyterian Church
Methodist Church
United Church of Christ
Mennonite Church (Quakers)
Unitarian Universalist Church
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse..." - Genesis 12:3a
It is rather interesting to note that calls for Israel to obey international law do not themselves recognize that same law giving Israel the right to exist among the community of nations. Palestinian interests regularly utilize every form of anti-semitic venom to justify encroachment upon the land given to Israel by God.
It should be noted here that there is not, nor has there ever been an Arab nation called Palestine, yet the supporters of Palestinian claims seem to forget this historic fact. The area came to be called Palestine because of the wish of the Roman Empire to wrest the land's historic roots from the indigenous people and to imprint their own culture upon it. The Romans were only partly successful. When they left the name remained. Long before Rome named it, God had given it to the Jews.
American media, usually left wing in nature, stands with fascist interests in condemning the right of Israel to defend itself. As of this writing, the list of churches who support the BDS movement is incomplete due to the shifting nature of each group's internal politics. For instance, the Vatican seems to waver between accepting Palestinian interests and pretending to support peace in the region. There will be no peace in the region as long as one Jew remains alive.
God gave the State of Israel to the Jews as a homeland.
Those who attempt to stand against Israel may find themselves working against the very hand of God. Several churches in America have now added their closet anti-semitism to the greater interests of those who hate God and God's people Israel. May they suffer the curses they wish upon Israel, according to the Word of God they once claimed sacred.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Well, I can say for a fact that this is at least partially inaccurate, given how the presiding body of the Episcopal Church recently voted down divesting from Israel. Of course, the OP has never been particularly interested in accuracy. Why deal with all those tedious facts when you can copy and paste propaganda?
However, all that being said, I do not believe in the unqualified support for the state of Israel, nor should any right-thinking Christian even halfway concerned with the cause of justice.
The OP rightly points out that there was never a Palestine. But there wasn't an Israel between its conquest by Pompey in 63 BC and 1948, either. You might as well talk about the sovereign rights of the Toltecs in Mexico. So if you're arguing that the Palestinians were not a state, then you have to say the same about Israel. Or, for that matter, India. Or any other British, French, Dutch, or Portuguese colony that gained its independence over the past 70-80 years.
What's more, the OP ignores the fact that the Palestinians sought self-determination in a pact with the British and French in exchange for their help against the Ottomans in World War I. The Allies won, and promptly forgot their deal, instead of making Palestine into a British protectorate.
Until the beginning of the 20th Century, the number of Jews in Israel were less than 10% of the population. Suddenly, with the Balfour Declaration, the British declared Palestine a Jewish homeland, followed up by the UN declaration in 1947.
As a result, Palestinians were summarily tossed off their ancestral lands by the decree of foreigners for little other reason than Zionist beliefs that weren't even supported unanimously by Jews of the time. And since then, more and more Palestinians have been evicted from lands that had been in their families for generations, even centuries, by little more than government fiat.
I mean, let's just say you lived on a nice tract of land that had been handed down to you over several generations. Now, let's say that, suddenly, the government tells you, "Hey, you have to get out because we're going to give it to these people over here. Their ancestors lived here two millenia ago, so they have dibs. So go live on this barren, crowded strip of land. You have two weeks to pack." How would you feel about it? Wouldn't you be outraged? So it's strange that the OP uses the term fascist to describe those who oppose the forfeiture of their lands through nothing more than the arbitrary exercise of power.
Hey, does Israel have a right to exist? Sure. Can't unring a bell. Do I support terrorism? No, that would be absurd. But show me anybody who ignores or marginalizes the Palestinian complaints, and I'll show you someone at odd with the Christian notions of justice and fairness.
And, lest you think this is a Jewish vs. Muslim issue, remember that roughly 12% of all Palestinians in Israel in 1948 were Christians. In fact, Christians outnumbered Jews in Palestine until World War I. So you are basically supporting the displacement and oppression of your fellow Christians in order to fulfill some dubious prophecy.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 05-23-2018 at 05:53 PM..
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