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I didn't ask anyone to listen to it at all. It was placed there for anyone interested. And specifically what I said is a 20 minute video is not a fair rebuttal. A summary would be nice.
Cheap Grace? What? Jesus came to fulfill the law and died on the cross. That is not cheap. What a bizarre statement. Sounds very judgmental to me. Are you condemning him for 'seeking cheap grace'? And me? I believe in what you call 'cheap Grace'. It's right there in the Bible, which I quoted for you.
It certainly sounds like "cheap grace" to me; "Jesus has already done it all; I'm off the hook."
Maybe you should read "Believing Christ."But then, on the other hand, that might actually enable you to understand something before condemning it. It's seriously a beautifully written book that accurately expresses the LDS understanding of the relationship between grace and works. For anyone who actually wants to become educated on what Mormons believe, there is no better source.
I didn't ask anyone to listen to it at all. It was placed there for anyone interested. And specifically what I said is a 20 minute video is not a fair rebuttal. A summary would be nice.
Summaries are only as good as the extended version, and if they extended version is inaccurate, what's the point of a summary at all?
First you say that Mormons are told that that they have to married (i.e. sealed in the temple) and have children in order to attain the highest level of salvation. Then you say that Mormons are told that Heavenly Father will work it out if they don't do this. So which is it?
That is what Mormons who are told this would like to know. How? They are told it's part of what they must do on earth to climb the ladder. If the woman in question has children, she can't seal herself to them or take them to heaven without being married in the temple to a worthy Mormon.
This leaves a lot of people excruciatingly concerned about their eternal life. The kind they are taught to believe in by their church.
It certainly sounds like "cheap grace" to me; "Jesus has already done it all; I'm off the hook."
Maybe you should read "Believing Christ."But then, on the other hand, that might actually enable you to understand something before condemning it. It's seriously a beautifully written book that accurately expresses the LDS understanding of the relationship between grace and works. For anyone who actually wants to become educated on what Mormons believe, there is no better source.
Well, then you disagree with the Bible. Because it plainly states that what you call 'cheap Grace' IS the Grace that Jesus gave us.
None of the above. When did I say anything of the sort?
Too hard a question, huh? Or is it that you just don't want to incriminate yourself? Let me dumb the question down a bit for you...
1. Do you believe that I'm honest in explaining LDS doctrine or that I intentionally try to gloss over certain things to make Mormonism more palatable to other people?
2. Do you believe that I have a good understanding of LDS doctrine or that I need a little help from non-LDS sources to set me straight?
Too hard a question, huh? Or is it that you just don't want to incriminate yourself? Let me dumb the question down a bit for you...
1. Do you believe that I'm honest in explaining LDS doctrine or that I intentionally try to gloss over certain things to make Mormonism more palatable to other people?
2. Do you believe that I have a good understanding of LDS doctrine or that I need a little help from non-LDS sources to set me straight?
Are you under the mis-impression that this thread is about you personally? I shall not respond further since you're being so rude.
Well, then you disagree with the Bible. Because it plainly states that what you call 'cheap Grace' IS the Grace that Jesus gave us.
No, I most certainly do not disagree with the Bible. I believe Matthew 25:31-45 in particular.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I also believe the Bible when it says:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Matthew 16:27)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (John 15:10)
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:12-13)
Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2 Timothy 2:19)
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. (Hebrews 5:9)
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2:20-24)
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