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Old 07-18-2021, 08:08 PM
 
1,091 posts, read 279,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Yes. That is clearly seen in the story Jesus told of the Pharisee and the sinner.

13 God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified. -Luke 18

I think that's good, too.

 
Old 07-18-2021, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
The man who believed was credited.

Now, back to forgiveness: What you've stated is objective forgiveness. And, in like manner, Jesus objectively forgave, justified and reconciled the entire world to God (2Co 5:19).
So what about the man who doesn’t believe? You appear to be saying he too is credited with righteousness, no? *For the correct answer, see John 3:36.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
So what about the man who doesn’t believe? You appear to be saying he too is credited with righteousness, no? *For the correct answer, see John 3:36.
No. He's not imputed with righteousness until faith. However, now that we've clarified what it means for the world to be forgiven, justified and reconciled objectively to God, we need to read Rom 8:30:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The text above is stated objectively. The verbs "justified" and "glorified" are aorist tense, active voice, indicative mood. God has already declared them justified and glorified. However, not all have received these declarations subjectively. It's not a matter of if, but when. And that is found in 1Co 15:22-26.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
No. He's not imputed with righteousness until faith. However, now that we've clarified what it means for the world to be forgiven, justified and reconciled objectively to God, we need to read Rom 8:30:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The text above is stated objectively. The verbs "justified" and "glorified" are aorist tense, active voice, indicative mood. God has already declared them justified and glorified. However, not all have received these declarations subjectively.
What if he never believes?
 
Old 07-18-2021, 09:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
What if he never believes?
That's something God has already taken into account. They'll be saved by mercy in judgement:

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

And, through mercy, all will believe and be saved:

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,376,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
So what about the man who doesn’t believe? You appear to be saying he too is credited with righteousness, no? *For the correct answer, see John 3:36.
I believe it is God's desire that remains on him, not some wrathful condemnation. And in the ongoing result of that action; desires (wants, wills) ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. The action is indicative. Nowhere is it subjunctive, or that of being contingent or probable, nor imperative on the subject’s response. Neither is it Optative, as in being unlikely or wishful thinking that mankind might come to this salvation and knowledge. (see 1 Timothy 2:4... who desires ALL PEOPLE to be saved and come to full knowledge of [the] truth.

 
Old 07-18-2021, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,801,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
That's something God has already taken into account. They'll be saved by mercy in judgement:

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

And, through mercy, all will believe and be saved:

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
No. Romans 11 is referring to the Jews. I suspect you knew that already.
 
Old 07-18-2021, 09:19 PM
 
1,091 posts, read 279,177 times
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Night jimmiej
 
Old 07-18-2021, 09:36 PM
 
1,091 posts, read 279,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
No. Romans 11 is referring to the Jews. I suspect you knew that already.
Paul is speaking of both Israel and Gentiles:

Rom 11:30 for as ye also once did not believe in God, and now did find kindness by the unbelief of these:
Rom 11:31 so also these now did not believe, that in your kindness they also may find kindness;
 
Old 07-18-2021, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,801,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru View Post
Paul is speaking of both Israel and Gentiles:

Rom 11:30 for as ye also once did not believe in God, and now did find kindness by the unbelief of these:
Rom 11:31 so also these now did not believe, that in your kindness they also may find kindness;
Yes, but not in the way your are suggesting. God put the Jews in a state of unbelief in order for the Gentiles to be offered the gospel. That alone justifies no one.
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