Universalism - all aspects - pro and con (Gospel, believe, Jesus Christ)

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by jjGuru

I was concluding what you had stated. The text states that Jesus justifies the ungodly, and that is what I believe.

I know what it says, and what it doesn’t say, and so do you.

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by jjGuru

jimmiej

Have you ever forgiven someone without them knowing it?

Yes. Now, explain what this phrase means from the passage in question.

his faith is credited as righteousness

[jjGuru]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

I know what it says, and what it doesn’t say, and so do you.

Look, if Paul believes that Jesus justifies the ungodly, and that is what he wanted to tell us, how else would he have said it?

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by jjGuru

Look, if Paul believes that Jesus justifies the ungodly, and that is what he wanted to tell us, how else would he have said it?

I’m not arguing that point. God does justify the ungodly. However, Paul, like Jesus in John 3:16, adds a requirement to access justification, and that is faith or belief.

[jjGuru]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

Yes. Now, explain what this phrase means from the passage in question.

his faith is credited as righteousness

That his faith was credited to righteousness for believing that Jesus justifies the ungodly.

Now, regarding the person you forgave without them knowing it: Are they forgiven or not?

[jjGuru]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

I’m not arguing that point. God does justify the ungodly. However, Paul, like Jesus in John 3:16, adds a requirement to access justification, and that is faith or belief.

The declaration is objective, believing (if that's what you mean by "accessing" the declaration) is subjective. Do you understand what it is I'm saying here?

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by jjGuru

That his faith was credited to righteousness for believing that Jesus justifies the ungodly.

Now, regarding the person you forgave without them knowing it: Are they forgiven or not?

And who received credit for his faith? Everyone, or the man who believed?

Yes.

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

And who received credit for his faith? Everyone, or the man who believed?

Believing is a credit card to get you out of jail?

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by jjGuru

The declaration is objective, believing (if that's what you mean by "accessing" the declaration) is subjective. Do you understand what it is I'm saying here?

Yes. That is clearly seen in the story Jesus told of the Pharisee and the sinner.

13 God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified. -Luke 18

[jjGuru]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

And who received credit for his faith? Everyone, or the man who believed?

Yes.

The man who believed was credited.

Now, back to forgiveness: What you've stated is objective forgiveness. And, in like manner, Jesus objectively forgave, justified and reconciled the entire world to God (2Co 5:19).