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Some erroneously believe Scripture supports the idea of hell fire.
"Everlasting torment is intolerable from a moral point of view because it makes God into a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for victims whom he does not even allow to die," wrote the late Clark Pinnock, an influential evangelical theologian.
The ancient writers did not define the word αἰώνιος by the English translations or the word eternal. Aidios (ἀΐδιος) equates to that which is eternal, not aionios which is not its equivalent. Although αἰώνιος (aionios) may relate to that which is a long time or over the horizon, it does not mean eternal, unending or forever and ever as in eternity. Although it continues to appear that man cannot comprehend the existence of his errors, when too deeply immersed in them.
Why someone would want to support the idea of eternal punishment is beyond any moral comprehension; and is nothing more or less than sadistic, vengeful and absurdly asinine. It doesn't matter how many ways you want to justify it with an elitism mentality. No one is any greater or less than anyone else. The biggest problem with religion is that it believes otherwise - exalting itself.
Just keep adding onto the definition of what you believe is the meaning of a word to support your agenda.
And the pit (hole, grave) one digs becomes an eternal place of hellfire and brimstone for human damnation.
You cannot take something that is non-existent and call it reality by any stretch of the imagination.
I responded to your Christianity. My faith comes from the Spirit, my knowledge comes from the Scriptures. My response is the combination of these two Truths
On this forum you are allowed to refer to yourself anyway you wish. But I am also allowed to disagree with your religion
Your like minded followers is an interesting study. You come up with nice and pretty sounding platitudes but really offers little value or substance. I am very confident that you have pages of these nice sounding (and overused) phrases. You just pluck them out and paste them in.
Dear KJoe: The "nice sounding platitudes" you can, and evidently will, continue to disagree with until the cows come home or our Father in His love and grace gives you a new vision of Himself.
Platitude #1=
Jesus Christ is 100% successful as Saviour.
"God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind & especially those who trust in Him/ who believe. Command this and teach this."
That my friend, is NOT Rosey 4:10, but the religious platitude of St. Paul.
Please note
God is NOT a potential Saviour: He IS Saviour!
He is Saviour of ALL mankind, with a special emphasis on "those who believe/trust in Him. "
"Everlasting torment is intolerable from a moral point of view because it makes God into a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for victims whom he does not even allow to die," wrote the late Clark Pinnock, an influential evangelical theologian.
The ancient writers did not define the word αἰώνιος by the English translations or the word eternal. Aidios (ἀΐδιος) equates to that which is eternal, not aionios which is not its equivalent. Although αἰώνιος (aionios) may relate to that which is a long time or over the horizon, it does not mean eternal, unending or forever and ever as in eternity. Although it continues to appear that man cannot comprehend the existence of his errors, when too deeply immersed in them.
Why someone would want to support the idea of eternal punishment is beyond any moral comprehension; and is nothing more or less than sadistic, vengeful and absurdly asinine. It doesn't matter how many ways you want to justify it with an elitism mentality. No one is any greater or less than anyone else. The biggest problem with religion is that it believes otherwise - exalting itself.
Just keep adding onto the definition of what you believe is the meaning of a word to support your agenda.
And the pit (hole, grave) one digs becomes an eternal place of hellfire and brimstone for human damnation.
You cannot take something that is non-existent and call it reality by any stretch of the imagination.
It doesn't make any sense at all, and although we all begin thinking that is the case, it isn't the case. I would say that even Peter was unaware of what the truth really is, but the author of Revelation understood the symbolism of it, that we are both the evil and the righteous, the evil is taken away and eveyone thinks it is speaking of certain people they think are wicked, but we are all the wicked.
"Everlasting torment is intolerable from a moral point of view because it makes God into a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for victims whom he does not even allow to die," wrote the late Clark Pinnock, an influential evangelical theologian.
The ancient writers did not define the word αἰώνιος by the English translations or the word eternal. Aidios (ἀΐδιος) equates to that which is eternal, not aionios which is not its equivalent. Although αἰώνιος (aionios) may relate to that which is a long time or over the horizon, it does not mean eternal, unending or forever and ever as in eternity. Although it continues to appear that man cannot comprehend the existence of his errors, when too deeply immersed in them.
Why someone would want to support the idea of eternal punishment is beyond any moral comprehension; and is nothing more or less than sadistic, vengeful and absurdly asinine. It doesn't matter how many ways you want to justify it with an elitism mentality. No one is any greater or less than anyone else. The biggest problem with religion is that it believes otherwise - exalting itself.
Just keep adding onto the definition of what you believe is the meaning of a word to support your agenda.
And the pit (hole, grave) one digs becomes an eternal place of hellfire and brimstone for human damnation.
You cannot take something that is non-existent and call it reality by any stretch of the imagination.
Dear KJoe: The "nice sounding platitudes" you can, and evidently will, continue to disagree with until the cows come home or our Father in His love and grace gives you a new vision of Himself.
Platitude #1=
Jesus Christ is 100% successful as Saviour.
"God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind & especially those who trust in Him/ who believe. Command this and teach this."
That my friend, is [b]NOT Rosey 4:10, but the religious platitude of St. Paul.
Please note
God is NOT a potential Saviour: He IS Saviour!
He is Saviour of ALL mankind, with a special emphasis on "those who believe/trust in Him. "
God's success rate is 100% successful!
The purple cows genuflects to the majesty of creation. The milk of his being provides nourishment to all mankind in his generosity. Hummmmmmm. Should be pinching my fore finger to my thumb at this moment?
Hummmmmm. I am just like you now.
"Everlasting torment is intolerable from a moral point of view because it makes God into a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for victims whom he does not even allow to die," wrote the late Clark Pinnock, an influential evangelical theologian.
The ancient writers did not define the word αἰώνιος by the English translations or the word eternal. Aidios (ἀΐδιος) equates to that which is eternal, not aionios which is not its equivalent. Although αἰώνιος (aionios) may relate to that which is a long time or over the horizon, it does not mean eternal, unending or forever and ever as in eternity. Although it continues to appear that man cannot comprehend the existence of his errors, when too deeply immersed in them.
Why someone would want to support the idea of eternal punishment is beyond any moral comprehension; and is nothing more or less than sadistic, vengeful and absurdly asinine. It doesn't matter how many ways you want to justify it with an elitism mentality. No one is any greater or less than anyone else. The biggest problem with religion is that it believes otherwise - exalting itself.
Just keep adding onto the definition of what you believe is the meaning of a word to support your agenda.
And the pit (hole, grave) one digs becomes an eternal place of hellfire and brimstone for human damnation.
You cannot take something that is non-existent and call it reality by any stretch of the imagination.
They believe it because they believed they were worthy it of having been convinced they were by the same message they preach. It’s a vicious circle that is seemingly impossible to escape from, but thankfully all things are possible with God, which fundies have a hard to believing, because they have set the will of man up to be greater than God himself.
I’m sure when Jesus rebuked for as being children of hell, he was spot on, they announce it like it’s their experience, which I’m sure it is the way they vehemently promote it. They’ve yet to set their feet on that mountain so that their feet may be called lovely.
They believe it because they believed they were worthy it of having been convinced they were by the same message they preach. It’s a vicious circle that is seemingly impossible to escape from, but thankfully all things are possible with God, which fundies have a hard to believing, because they have set the will of man up to be greater than God himself.
It just appears to be what is said, it's just not meant that way in the spirit.
For instance, Isaiah is speaking of humans being transformed and he uses the heavens and the earth to show a new body, it isn't that we have a new heavens and a new earth, we have a new body(Earth) and a new spirit(heavens)
Isaiah A new heaven and a new earth.
17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever*in thatwhich I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner*being*an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21And they shall build houses, and inhabit*them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree*are*the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they*are*the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.*25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust*shall be*the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Revelation's New Body, New Spirit.
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.*2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation is simply translating what Isaiah said, and what both of them said is speaking of a mass evolution of mankind.
But between Isaiah and Revelation we have other scriptures touching upon what Isaiah said, and they are looking for the literal instead of the spiritual.
The wicked are taken away, these sinful bodies along with all it's evil imaginations are taken away from us.
Thanks Rose, there's so much logic there... I love it! the Bible should lead to questions like this, and the living Word within us shows us the truth...that's how religion is done! Thank you for these great questions.
Dear Mom: Unfortunately, the "logic" evades many who would rather keep their eyes covered and ears plugged. But do not fear, we believe in the One who heals deaf ears and blind eyes!
Additional questions
Can that be merciful which is not just?
Does divine justice demand the infliction of pain from which mercy recoils?
Does divine mercy require any thing that justice refuses to grant?
If the demands of divine justice are opposed to the requirements of mercy, is not God divided against Himself?
If the requirements of mercy are opposed to the demands of the justice of God, can His kingdom stand? -- (Mark 3:24)
If the justice and mercy of God are any way opposed, do they "keep the unity of the spirit in the bonds of peace?'
If justice and mercy are opposed to their requirements can Deity be a just God and a Savior? -- (Isaiah 14:21)
If "a God all mercy is a God unjust," would not a God all justice be a God unmerciful?
It just appears to be what is said, it's just not meant that way in the spirit.
For instance, Isaiah is speaking of humans being transformed and he uses the heavens and the earth to show a new body, it isn't that we have a new heavens and a new earth, we have a new body(Earth) and a new spirit(heavens)
Isaiah A new heaven and a new earth.
17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever*in thatwhich I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner*being*an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21And they shall build houses, and inhabit*them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree*are*the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they*are*the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.*25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust*shall be*the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Revelation's New Body, New Spirit.
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.*2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation is simply translating what Isaiah said, and what both of them said is speaking of a mass evolution of mankind.
But between Isaiah and Revelation we have other scriptures touching upon what Isaiah said, and they are looking for the literal instead of the spiritual.
The wicked are taken away, these sinful bodies along with all it's evil imaginations are taken away from us.
I agree with you. The destruction creates the new. Just like the clay in the potters hands.
Jesus references Hell multiple times. Matthew 22:13, Mark 9:43, Matthew 10:28. If you are repulsed by the idea or flat out reject what Jesus said about eternal torment then you are not being led by the Spirit. If you do not have the Spirit then you are not part of God’s Church. Romans 8:14 The Scriptures are the Truth inspired by the Spirit. And, God does not deny His own Word. He is incapable of lying. 1 Samuel 15:29
It appears many are disturbed by this Truth and quite a few of similar messages have been ridiculed, redacted and deleted. Remember Jesus severely warned about this type of attitude. If God is threatening you might want to reconsider your actions. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a wrathful God.
I immediately notice that Jesus didn't write the Gospel According to Matthew, the Gospel According to Mark, or Romans. No one really knows who wrote Gospels Matthew and Mark. They were written anonymously decades after Jesus was claimed to have been executed, around 30 ad. "Romans" is a letter written by Paul sometime in the 50's ad. But Paul by his own admission never knew the earthly Jesus. Paul's claim to authority is his claim to have met Jesus several years after Jesus was executed.
Jesus left nothing written in his own hand. So it is impossible to know WHAT Jesus actually referenced. The things you think you know about Jesus are actually derived from claims made by others.
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