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Yes, I agree with the meaning of these about the nations and the gods, princes, hierarchies
This all factors into the as in heaven so on earth
What is bound in one is reflected in the other
To do with the “image” “images” which is picked up in the NT as well, regarding the judgement, which also relates to timing
Yes, there is a physical realm and there is a spiritual realm. Both of which are inhabited by beings belonging to each realm. God has both a human family and a divine family.
As Heiser puts it, the word elohim (God/gods) is a place of residency term. In 1 Samuel chapter 28 the dead prophet Samuel is called an elohim because his residency is now in the spiritual realm . . .he's in Sheol. While alive he was not an elohim, but now that he has died physically and taken up residency in Sheol. . .the underworld, he is an elohim/god. Obviously he does not have the attributes of Yahweh, but being a resident of the spirit world he is an elohim.
The same for the angels and other divine beings. All are elohim.
Yes, there is a physical realm and there is a spiritual realm. Both of which are inhabited by beings belonging to each realm. God has both a human family and a divine family.
As Heiser puts it, the word elohim (God/gods) is a place of residency term. In 1 Samuel chapter 28 the dead prophet Samuel is called an elohim because his residency is now in the spiritual realm . . .he's in Sheol. While alive he was not an elohim, but now that he has died physically and taken up residency in Sheol. . .the underworld, he is an elohim/god. Obviously he does not have the attributes of Yahweh, but being a resident of the spirit world he is an elohim.
The same for the angels and other divine beings. All are elohim.
I believe there is a layering effect and the physical has a spiritual counterpart/dimension at all levels, not just the individual level but the systematic, organisational level as well, that we are generally not aware of, some can personally see traces of it in déjà vu moments and NDE’s and we can see the impact of it playing out by comparing the actual historical to what was prophecied - but we need to compare actual historical events, not fables
Along these lines I have been noticing that Gen 1 is about the Elohim (God) making Adam in their image male and female at the 6th Day of creation
I think this relates to the plan
It is spoken and called by God
Then Gen 2 has the Lord (God) performing the actions of forming Adam, placing him in the garden, commanding him on the not eating the fruit, taking Eve from his side and making them one flesh etc
It seems to me to relate to the earthly that mirrors the heavenly, the speaking and calling
Gen 2:4**These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5**And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6**But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Rom 4:17**(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
G2564***(Strong)
καλέω
kaleō
kal-eh'-o
Akin to the base of G2753; to “call” (properly aloud, but used in a variety of applications, directly or otherwise): - bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur-) name (was [called]).
Yes, there is a physical realm and there is a spiritual realm. Both of which are inhabited by beings belonging to each realm. God has both a human family and a divine family.
As Heiser puts it, the word elohim (God/gods) is a place of residency term. In 1 Samuel chapter 28 the dead prophet Samuel is called an elohim because his residency is now in the spiritual realm . . .he's in Sheol. While alive he was not an elohim, but now that he has died physically and taken up residency in Sheol. . .the underworld, he is an elohim/god. Obviously he does not have the attributes of Yahweh, but being a resident of the spirit world he is an elohim.
The same for the angels and other divine beings. All are elohim.
You come so close to the truth but still misunderstand it. You are an enigma.
Yes, there is a physical realm and there is a spiritual realm. Both of which are inhabited by beings belonging to each realm. God has both a human family and a divine family.
As Heiser puts it, the word elohim (God/gods) is a place of residency term. In 1 Samuel chapter 28 the dead prophet Samuel is called an elohim because his residency is now in the spiritual realm . . .he's in Sheol. While alive he was not an elohim, but now that he has died physically and taken up residency in Sheol. . .the underworld, he is an elohim/god. Obviously he does not have the attributes of Yahweh, but being a resident of the spirit world he is an elohim.
The same for the angels and other divine beings. All are elohim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You come so close to the truth but still misunderstand it. You are an enigma.
Thanks for all the replies, but I am still not clear.
In modern times, are these "gods" still in charge of "the nations"? If so, it would explain nations like Iraq and Iran who are so destructive even to their own people.
Babylon was/is in Iraq and that was the site of the "disinheriting" of the nations.
Yes, there is a physical realm and there is a spiritual realm. Both of which are inhabited by beings belonging to each realm. God has both a human family and a divine family.
As Heiser puts it, the word elohim (God/gods) is a place of residency term. In 1 Samuel chapter 28 the dead prophet Samuel is called an elohim because his residency is now in the spiritual realm . . .he's in Sheol. While alive he was not an elohim, but now that he has died physically and taken up residency in Sheol. . .the underworld, he is an elohim/god. Obviously he does not have the attributes of Yahweh, but being a resident of the spirit world he is an elohim.
The same for the angels and other divine beings. All are elohim.
Yes. I am trying to get through Dr. Heiser's book "Demons" but it is so academic, not sure I'll make it. More so than "Unseen Realm". More than you ever wanted to know about the "elohim".
I have enormous difficulty resonating with minds that seem to be comfortable with the rather bizarre modes of thought depicted in these types of beliefs. I suspect indoctrination produces an acclimation over time and an accommodation to these patterns of thought as acceptable. That is probably what is responsible for the ability to reconcile obviously barbaric concepts and ideas of God within an otherwise modern-day mind. It remains puzzling to me, however.
Believe me, "minds" are NOT comfortable at ALL with this ancient mind-set. That's why we are trying to understand what was meant.
Dr. Heiser makes a good point that the Bible was written TO ancient peoples and their superstitious mindset, not TO modern people. The Bible is written FOR us, but not TO 21st Century moderns. So it will be difficult for us to adopt their mindset. Same as if the ancients were trying to understand a modern text.
I don't see any conflict, just confusion. Which we are trying to comprehend.
Thanks for all the replies, but I am still not clear.
In modern times, are these "gods" still in charge of "the nations"? If so, it would explain nations like Iraq and Iran who are so destructive even to their own people.
Babylon was/is in Iraq and that was the site of the "disinheriting" of the nations.
I would say yes. Until Jesus returns to set up his kingdom on the earth and rule over the nations himself the nations of the world are at the least being influenced by Satan and the other fallen angels (gods) who are under his command.
Yes. I am trying to get through Dr. Heiser's book "Demons" but it is so academic, not sure I'll make it. More so than "Unseen Realm". More than you ever wanted to know about the "elohim".
Just take it a bit at a time and you'll get through it.
Believe me, "minds" are NOT comfortable at ALL with this ancient mind-set. That's why we are trying to understand what was meant.
Dr. Heiser makes a good point that the Bible was written TO ancient peoples and their superstitious mindset, not TO modern people. The Bible is written FOR us, but not TO 21st Century moderns. So it will be difficult for us to adopt their mindset. Same as if the ancients were trying to understand a modern text.
I don't see any conflict, just confusion. Which we are trying to comprehend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Just take it a bit at a time and you'll get through it.
I agree with mike
Step by step, a bit at a time
I agree that the bible (and also the ancient writers) were writing for us, but not directly to us - there is a multiplying that happens- and also translating, interpreting, comparing that is needed by those with the “mind” suited to it and the skills to do it, and we have natural limitations on our “ability/gift”
What I find with me is that there is information that is needed from a diverse range of places to understand the context, so there will be a back and forth, circling between writers and periods
I follow the question that is raised by what I read and where “they” point to
Going back to your question about the “gods” of nations I believe prophetically those “gods” of the nations are related to the denominational heads that have been raised since the Protestant Revolution
The Romans, Greeks, Egyptians all looked forward to life after death in some form and recording their writings and symbols was about the keeping and preservation of the word
Christianity (and all religion) has a natural hierarchical structure and “life” and “soul” the same as individuals have - but are proportionately bigger, larger, longer living and are to be judged for their influence and works
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