Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Would this not suggest you had rejected core tenets of orthodox Christianity long before your mystical encounter with Jesus and thus were prepared to encounter only the sort of Jesus you in fact did encounter? As I mentioned on another thread, would this not suggest that what you regard as a mystical encounter with Jesus may in fact have been a mystical encounter with yourself? If I were in your shoes, before rejecting the core tenets of orthodox Christianity, I would be asking myself (1) just how sure am I about my own psychology and cognitive faculties, and (2) does orthodox Christianity have an explanation for my encounter (as indeed it does, right within the framework of this very thread)?
Demonology is one of those aspects of Christianity that is easily caricatured and can make Christians look silly to nonbelievers. However, even within the world of modern psychiatry, an external evil is accepted by many, many psychiatrists as the only plausible explanation for some cases. (Yes, I can provide sources - there are many.)
I don't think in terms of Satan and his minions. I think in terms of supernatural evil that God, for his mysterious purposes, has allowed to influence humans and human affairs. Not only is this Christian theology (and the theology of other major religions), but it squares with my own experiences and observations and pretty extensive studies. I would have reached a similar conclusion if I had never heard of Christianity.
Why God would allow this is a great mystery. I don't believe Christianity has a fully satisfactory answer. Some of the standard explanations are as cartoonish as nonbelievers' caricatures.
Here is my Amazon review of a recent book by a practicing psychiatrist with impeccable credentials and a worldwide reputation. The book is Demonic Foes: My Twenty-Five Years as a Psychiatrist Investigating Possessions, Diabolic Attacks, and the Paranormal, https://www.amazon.com/Demonic-Foes-...ct_top?ie=UTF8.
4.0 out of 5 stars Very worthwhile, with a couple of mild caveats
Reviewed in the United States on November 20, 2020
Verified Purchase
The author's credentials as a practicing psychiatrist and academic are impeccable. As a Christian, I have no philosophical objection to the existence of demonic forces. I have read quite widely in this area and am very familiar with most of the well-documented cases of possession. The author is a Catholic, although he does not write strictly from a Catholic perspective. Contrary to popular opinion, the Catholic Church is extremely demanding and conservative about recognizing authentic cases of possession.
Be forewarned that this is not, by any means, a gee-whiz account of 50 or 100 jaw-dropping possession cases. The author focuses on a relative handful of the many cases of possession and demonic influence in which he has been involved. The impressive ones, as always, involved phenomena that are difficult to explain in mundane terms - levitation, speaking unknown languages, hidden knowledge, etc. The cases serve as the basis for more general discussions - historical, anthropological and medical - that some readers may find dry and not as interesting as they had hoped.
Two things gave me mild pause:
1. While the author assumes that all of what he describes is the work of Satan and his minions, there is little theological discussion, little or no effort to put these cases in the context of Christian belief. As a garden-variety (but very widely read) Christian, I have difficulty fitting these cases into my theology. I have difficulty just blithely saying "Well, there you go. These dummies flirted with Satanism, sometimes as mere youths, and now they are paying a hideous price" as though there were no more theological mystery than this.
2. Throughout the book, the author comes across like the most rigid sort of fundamentalist thinkers in regard to the entire body of paranormal phenomena. He repeatedly suggests they are all demonic. As someone with a wide and deep background in all aspects of psychical research and the paranormal, this strikes me as uninformed and naïve. The full panoply of apparitions, mediumistic communications, Near Death Experiences, After Death Communications and the rest cannot reasonably be ascribed to demonic forces. If I had to guess, I'd speculate that the cases the author regards as demonic possession belong in the same box with the other phenomena, as clues to a higher level of reality that is more complex and mysterious than just God vs. Satan.
The book is nevertheless very worthwhile reading, if only to demonstrate that demonic forces are taken seriously - and for good reason - by people with the author's medical and academic credentials. Whatever the ostensibly demonic forces actually are, they are nothing to joke about or toy with. The author's cases make the point that even youthful promises to Satan, which may not even have been entirely serious at the time, can have devastating and long-lasting consequences. Even casual involvement in the occult can open doors you'll wish you'd never opened and may have a literal Hell of a time trying to close.
Hardcover, only $18.29 - if you're gullible enough to buy it.
The history of paranormal phenomena makes clear that whatever is going on, there is an ability to manipulate electrical and electronic devices. I have no explanation for this, but I do believe it is a giant clue of some sort. My own paranormal experiences include two jaw-dropping manipulations of electrical devices by my late wife - believe me, you'd think I was delusional if I related them. One occurred at almost the moment of her death, the other a month or so later. Ditto for one by her father minutes after his death. Ditto for a late neighbor who had become like a second father to me. There was nothing frightening or diabolical about these incidents - they were simply the sorts of things that have occurred millions of times to millions of sane and credible people. In whatever realm supernatural evil resides, I have no difficulty believing that the manipulation of electrical and electronic devices is within its capability. There is both a diabolical and (more frequently) a "trickster" aspect to what occurs - the trickster aspect is often playful and amusing.
Haven't you related them? Are you the guy who said something to the effect of "If you do that one more time I just might start to believe"? If so did anyone call you delusional? I thought we had a nice discussion out of that or maybe I'm thinking of someone else.
Fr. Rossetti is a credible source. I have no reason to disbelieve his accounts.
Yes, you are correct. Father Rossetti trained in Rome and in the US under a senior exorcist, and was appointed a diocesan exorcist by his bishop in Washington.
According to Catholic exorcists, individual demons specialize or focus on individual human emotions-- resentment, or greed, or lust, etc. A demon can be invited in either consciously or unconsciously. Example of conscious invitation would be the Ouija board. On the other hand, an Unconscious one would be wallowing in a negative emotion resulting from difficult past experience. For example, a person who is being physically or emotionally mistreated is reacting normally by getting angry. When, however, the anger is clung to, causing permanent resentment, bitterness, and unforgiveness, a weakness is created that can give the demon the opportunity to enter the person. Such attitudes create what Exorcists call emotional or spiritual garbage that demons can feed on. The Catholics are the ones authorized to perform Exorcisms, so they know. They have the documentation.
According to Catholic exorcists, individual demons specialize or focus on individual human emotions-- resentment, or greed, or lust, etc. A demon can be invited in either consciously or unconsciously. Example of conscious invitation would be the Ouija board. On the other hand, an Unconscious one would be wallowing in a negative emotion resulting from difficult past experience. For example, a person who is being physically or emotionally mistreated is reacting normally by getting angry. When, however, the anger is clung to, causing permanent resentment, bitterness, and unforgiveness, a weakness is created that can give the demon the opportunity to enter the person. Such attitudes create what Exorcists call emotional or spiritual garbage that demons can feed on. The Catholics are the ones authorized to perform Exorcisms, so they know. They have the documentation.
How much to they know about Human Psychology without their religious beliefs?
Yes, I believe it would. So it should answer Jerwade's question.
This is not an easy issue to reconcile. William James, literally the Father of Psychology and empirical Pragmatism, conceded that there are things that are so evil psychology alone cannot explain their existence. So while I remain skeptical in the light of modern knowledge since James' era, the existence of the spiritual realm does provide a venue within which such things could conceivably occur.
How much do they know about Human Psychology without their religious beliefs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
The guy is a trained psychiatrist as well, does that count?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555
Yes, I believe it would. So it should answer Jerwade's question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
This is not an easy issue to reconcile. William James, literally the Father of Psychology and empirical Pragmatism, conceded that there are things that are so evil psychology alone cannot explain their existence. So while I remain skeptical in the light of modern knowledge since James' era, the existence of the spiritual realm does provide a venue within which such things could conceivably occur.
It all depends on his religious convictions and whether or not, they are a frame of reference to his understanding?
It all depends on his religious convictions and whether or not, they are a frame of reference to his understanding?
Yep, that can certainly be a factor, bias it’s called I believe
But it seems to me that we are all inherently biased to a certain extent
I think monastic is a Catholic?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
