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This still doesn't answer the source you're relying on. Are you not willing to provide that?
Virtually any concordance and the context provides the meaning. Look at the root words and what they mean - not the commentators saying "by imp:" and then explaining why the KJV says what it says. If you let the theologians interprete the meaning for you, that's when the trouble starts.
Clearly not all the things of the book have taken place. So the things that are near are for everyone that keeps the words, Or lives them, which is to keep something.
So true the blessings of becoming like Christ are near and are at hand for any who keep and live the teachings of Jesus, not just for those that lived then.
Otherwise why have them for the rest of us, it would have been a private revelation for only those in that time, which clearly it is not.
godspeed,
freedom
You say--"CLEARLY not all things in the Revelation have taken place." CLEARLY? WHEN is the word NEAR (engus) and the word SHORTLY (tachos) ever used in the sense you impose upon them in the Revelation? You cannot without strong precedent change the standard meanings of words to suit your preconceived ideas.
I have done studies of ALL of these words in the NT and NOWHERE do they mean what you force them to mean in the Book of Revelation. Show me just one instance in the NT where "near" or "shortly" clearly take such a departure from their normal meanings. Just one!
Have you ever tried to study the book from an historical perspective as these words clearly demand that you do?
YOU have pre-determined that the events of the Revelation have not taken place because of your erroneous preconceived understandings of them and then you impose upon the words of the Scriptures foreign meanings to fit those preconceived concepts. That is not sound exegesis but is indefensible acrobatic hermeneutics.
John's words are clear. The things he was shown were to in his day SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near. Everything that follows must be analyzed in light of the established time restraints placed upon them. All events are found in the context of THAT pre-A.D. 70 world!
But you have never looked there, have you?
Preterist
Last edited by Preterist; 07-04-2008 at 07:32 AM..
When did the Great River Euphrates dry up? When did the lion lay down with the lamb? If we are already in the Millennium, why is there still war? The American soldiers that lost their lives in the Gulf, now Iraq, wasn't really fighting any war right?
That's all to be taken? What, figuratively? Or partially literal? Allegorically? Talk to me, which one?
I'm asking specific questions: Can you please answer on this post? You want me to explain the context (here goes that word again) of the Euphrates drying up? Here Goes: Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up
Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false.
For they are spirits of demon, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
"Behold, I am coming as a thief.
Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his
garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
In what context do you want this explained? The Words of God need to be explained to you, by man, in order for you to accept them? God couldn't have said them any better! I'm suppose to go behind God now and twist them to my own liking? Really? I've being accused of being a Christ fanatic, amongst other things, but never crazy? So the great river Euphrates is not tangible? Does it not exist TODAY?
One more question: If Satan is bound TODAY? Why are the nations still being deceived? Are You being deceived?
Why do nations need Satan to deceive them? Is not man sinful enough in and of himself? The concept of Satan deceiving the nations pertains to the middle wall of partition that existed between Jews and Gentiles. That wall was destroyed by the coming of Christ and the taking of the gospel message to the Gentiles. All are now one in Christ through the New Covenant in His blood.
Paul said in Romans 16:20--"The God of peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY." Paul is speaking to those first-century brethren at Rome. Satan was to be "crushed" under THEIR feet. This is a reference to Genesis 3:15, the protevangelium.
What did Christ Himself say concerning judgment of this world and the Devil? After predicting His approaching death and asking that the Father glorify His name, a voice came from heaven, saying "I have both glorified it [His name] and will glorify it again."
Jesus then explained this to the people who had heard the voice--
John 12:31--"This voice did not come because of Me, but for YOUR SAKE. NOW is the judgment of this world; NOW the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up will draw ALL peoples [nations] to Myself." In Christ's victorious return in glory in A.D. 70, Satan was fully crushed "under the feet" of THOSE persecuted saints.
You no longer answer these questions because the answer is THEY HAVE NOT HAPPENED! You have been given the truth in MANY posts on here and refuse to believe it.
Original quote: Preterist
Quote:
As a new believer, I was taught pre-mil, pre-trib., dispensationalism. That was all I knew. I became well versed in all the events of the "end times"--the 1000-year reign, the anti-Christ, the beast of Revelation, the resurrection, the great battle of Armageddon, and the burning up of the heavens and the earth. Maybe you're smarter than I am, but I was troubled by the fact that I really had to force and twist the Scriptures to coordinate all of these things, often grabbing verses from here and there to hold it all together. I decided one day to cast it all aside and start fresh. I wanted to know for myself without anyone's else input, what saith the Scriptures. It took me many years to study my way to preterism--in fact, I became a preterist before I even knew what that word meant!
Resting in the word of God and believing the truth through Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."
This statement right here explains things quite well:
But I was troubled by the fact that I really had to force and twist the Scriptures to coordinate all of these things, often grabbing verses from here and there to hold it all together. I decided one day to cast it all aside and start fresh. I wanted to know for myself without anyone's else input, what saith the Scriptures.
I'm beginning to understand through all this it is not about words, history, etc., preterism, I believe it is a rooted cause in unbelief. The refuting and testimony has no substance.
The scripture was not taken in "faith" and accepted. So one needed to find the reasoning of why they could not accept and believe what the Holy Spirit was giving.The unbelief rejected the Holy Spirit.
Until one finds the answer that satisfies the unsettledness of unbelief they will try to seek and find an answer to quieting their spirit of unbelief. They do not accept the fact that God's truth is given in faith. Which the unbelief creates a restlessness. Faith in Christ gives us a rested hope in the present and for the future.
In preterism there is no rest in hope at all!
God talks about the rest in Hebrews 4
Heb.4:2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
Heb.4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience.
Preterism builds another foundation other then the foundation of Jesus Christ in Scripture. They build on a foundation of the past and look what happen in the wilderness to those who would not believe God. God had a purpose and plan for the future of the Israelites. Canaan a land full of milk and honey. But they did not believe and trusted God and move forward. They wander around in the wilderness for forty years in a circle because they did not believe God.
Disobedience is a root/product of unbelief!
Preterism denies the very foundation set for us by and through Christ Jesus presented to us in the Scripture.
Let us not dare to join a merely human or a carnal life with a Divine faith, the corruption of sin with the Profession of Christianity. Christ is a firm, abiding, and immovable Rock of ages, every way able to bear all the weight that God himself or the sinner can lay upon him; neither is there salvation in any other. Leave out the doctrine of his atonement, and there is no foundation for our hopes.
Preterism walks in the heart of reasoning, the natural man can not make sense of the spiritual. It is carnal and does not have the Spirit. One can not accepted the reality of the truth given in scripture without the abiding Spirit producing faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb. 11:1
One can not reason with faith..... It is grace that is given in to the heart of those who will believe even when it doesn't make sense.
Faith takes one beyond the obviousness of words....
Faith is the reality that the words become life....and are living! One can not prove, but only believe. One can only come to God by faith. For without it we cannot please Him.
One can not reason with faith..... It is grace that is given in to the heart of those who will believe even when it doesn't make sense.
Faith takes one beyond the obviousness of words....
Faith is the reality that the words become life....and are living! One can not prove, but only believe. One can only come to God by faith. For without it we cannot please Him.
I did not post God does not exist......
A "person" can not prove God to anyone, especially to one who does not believe! Only God can prove Himself to a heart of unbelief. Through His Holy Spirit.
Resting in the word of God and believing the truth through Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."
This statement right here explains things quite well:
But I was troubled by the fact that I really had to force and twist the Scriptures to coordinate all of these things, often grabbing verses from here and there to hold it all together. I decided one day to cast it all aside and start fresh. I wanted to know for myself without anyone's else input, what saith the Scriptures.
I'm beginning to understand through all this it is not about words, history, etc., preterism, I believe it is a rooted cause in unbelief. The refuting and testimony has no substance.
The scripture was not taken in "faith" and accepted. So one needed to find the reasoning of why they could not accept and believe what the Holy Spirit was giving.The unbelief rejected the Holy Spirit.
Until one finds the answer that satisfies the unsettledness of unbelief they will try to seek and find an answer to quieting their spirit of unbelief. They do not accept the fact that God's truth is given in faith. Which the unbelief creates a restlessness. Faith in Christ gives us a rested hope in the present and for the future.
In preterism there is no rest in hope at all!
God talks about the rest in Hebrews 4
Heb.4:2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
Heb.4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience.
Preterism builds another foundation other then the foundation of Jesus Christ in Scripture. They build on a foundation of the past and look what happen in the wilderness to those who would not believe God. God had a purpose and plan for the future of the Israelites. Canaan a land full of milk and honey. But they did not believe and trusted God and move forward. They wander around in the wilderness for forty years in a circle because they did not believe God.
Disobedience is a root/product of unbelief!
Preterism denies the very foundation set for us by and through Christ Jesus presented to us in the Scripture.
Let us not dare to join a merely human or a carnal life with a Divine faith, the corruption of sin with the Profession of Christianity. Christ is a firm, abiding, and immovable Rock of ages, every way able to bear all the weight that God himself or the sinner can lay upon him; neither is there salvation in any other. Leave out the doctrine of his atonement, and there is no foundation for our hopes.
Preterism walks in the heart of reasoning, the natural man can not make sense of the spiritual. It is carnal and does not have the Spirit. One can not accepted the reality of the truth given in scripture without the abiding Spirit producing faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb. 11:1
One can not reason with faith..... It is grace that is given in to the heart of those who will believe even when it doesn't make sense.
Faith takes one beyond the obviousness of words....
Faith is the reality that the words become life....and are living! One can not prove, but only believe. One can only come to God by faith. For without it we cannot please Him.
Again, when one cannot adequately debate on the verses in question, one resorts to name calling. If anyone disagrees here with the futurist teachings, they are quickly labeled unbelievers and lacking in faith!
"One cannot reason with faith?" "Faith takes one beyond the obviousness of words?" These are lame statements made by those who cannot intelligently and reasonably debate the truths of the Word of God. This is nothing but a bunch of gobbledygook (wikipedia--"an English term used to describe NONSENSICAL language, sound that resembles language but has no meaning . . . . pretentious language.") curlythecosmos. I see why you don't like reasoning. It is because you can't! One can't prove his position through reasoning and sound biblical principles so he resorts to empty philosophical statements such as yours.
Words mean things or else there is NO communication. And words REALLY mean things when they are taken in their CONTEXT!
Do you not see the parallel of the wilderness wanderings for FORTY YEARS and the time of FORTY YEARS given to those first-century Jews? The former rejected God and did not enter His rest and the land because of unbelief and those apostate rebellious Jews of Jesus day (see Matthew 23 if you want to know His assessment of them) rejected God and did not enter His rest or the kingdom (A.D. 70).
Paul is warning his first-century brethren of Rome to whom he is writing and those contemporaneous to them who would read the letter that they, like their fellow Jews before them, would not enter the soon coming rest if they did not believe! Who brought perfect rest? Not Joshua--not the Old Covenant with its types and shadows. But Jesus--the antitype of ALL types and the substance of ALL of the shadows. Study this entire magnificent book for that is the theme of it. Jesus is EVERYTHING necessary to fulfill ALL of the OT typology.
When would that COMPLETE rest come? When He came. And when did He come according to the WORDS which you want to ignore--SOON in THAT day. There is rest not in this world but in that "heavenly country" Abraham longed for and waited for where Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords!
Why do you place the first person personal pronoun in my statement in bold letters, curlythecosmos? What are you trying to say? Are you implying and am I to infer that you were accusing me of attempting to satisfy myself? If so, you did not understand my very clear statement.
Again, and I see that I cannot say this often enough--BE CAREFUL of what you accuse others lest YOU YOURSELF be found guilty of that very thing.
I grow weary of people here grabbing isolated verses and throwing them at people out of CONTEXT to make them say something they do not say. Let us be CAREFUL how we use God's precious word. We will all be held accountable!
A "person" can not prove God to anyone, especially to one who does not believe! Only God can prove Himself to a heart of unbelief. Through His Holy Spirit.
I am not talking about the proof one receives through salvation. I am talking about a knowledge of God which ALL men possess, yet which most suppress with unrighteousness.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things." - Romans 1:18-23
God has revealed Himself to ALL, and His existence can be clearly seen -- whether fallen man admits it or not. Please visit the links I gave you in the previous post for more on this.
Virtually any concordance and the context provides the meaning. Look at the root words and what they mean - not the commentators saying "by imp:" and then explaining why the KJV says what it says. If you let the theologians interprete the meaning for you, that's when the trouble starts.
blessings,
- Byron
Byron,
Unless you personally have written the concordance, you are relying on somebody else, aren't you?
What was the excuse before the KJV, the Dead Sea Scrolls? KJV was found to be almost 100% word for word. The Dead Sea Scrolls authorship dates back 1000 years from any known transcripts up to that time of discovery in 1949.
The problem doesn't start within the KJV. Its with people who listen to what their itching ears want to hear. Grant it, some are theologians. Some start their own cults, some of those cults turn into very large church bodies that we have today. Some of those church bodies have the name Jesus or Saints or Jehovah in them. The devil has his cronies too, and they do print concordances.
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-04-2008 at 09:43 AM..
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