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Back off the nose candy and then please explain the process of how Catholicism was "forced" on the natives of Mexico.
I guess you have never read a single work of American history, then.
Starting with Columbus a primary objective of Spanish colonization was the making of converts. The Indians were induced by a wide variety of methods from basic preaching to burning at the stake, to declare themselves converts to Christianity.
Really, anyone who thinks there was no coercion in the making of converts by the Spanish needs to go back to the library and learn some of the basics.
Yup. This whole idea of being "forced" into believing just about anything, baffles me...
Encouraged is one thing. But "forced"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
We should not try to deny the egregious history of Catholic "forcing." It is undeniable, just ask whatever Cathars may exist today, Mink.
Old habits die hard
The RCC certainly did use force but not just force, and if they could get away with it they probably still would force their religion on others but they are not the only ones that do that - it is part of their role of having dominion and which prompted the need for reformation, hence the religious tension - the seeds get sown, we reap the consequences
We should not try to deny the egregious history of Catholic "forcing." It is undeniable, just ask whatever Cathars may exist today, Mink.
Cathars were baptized Catholics over which the Church had lawful jurisdiction. I do not deny that at times baptized Catholics have been forced to adhere to Catholic beliefs, sometimes upon penalty of death. I do not even claim that this is necessarily bad or wrong.
Where in history do you see non-Catholics being forced into conversion?
Umm its called "convert or die." I am of Spanish descent. I don't sugar coat what people of my own ethnicity have done across the Americas.
There's no need to sugarcoat anything. The Spanish brought civilization to the Americas and saved the natives from their eventual self-destruction by routing the demons they worshipped.
Do you have a specific example of a "convert or die" incident, or a specific individual who faced this situation?
I guess you have never read a single work of American history, then.
Starting with Columbus a primary objective of Spanish colonization was the making of converts. The Indians were induced by a wide variety of methods from basic preaching to burning at the stake, to declare themselves converts to Christianity.
Really, anyone who thinks there was no coercion in the making of converts by the Spanish needs to go back to the library and learn some of the basics.
We're not talking about the making of converts or coercion. We're talking about force - "convert or die".
Do you have any examples of forced conversions by the Spanish in the New World?
Yup. This whole idea of being "forced" into believing just about anything, baffles me...
Encouraged is one thing. But "forced"?
Sure. Encouraged. I guess a sword to one's throat is quite "encouraging."
Not Mexico... but you should look up "Hatuey."
Hatuey;
"Here is the God the Spaniards worship. For these they fight and kill; for these they persecute us and that is why we have to throw them into the sea... They tell us, these tyrants, that they adore a God of peace and equality, and yet they usurp our land and make us their slaves. They speak to us of an immortal soul and of their eternal rewards and punishments, and yet they rob our belongings, seduce our women, violate our daughters. Incapable of matching us in valor, these cowards cover themselves with iron that our weapons cannot break.."
Yea, sounds like peaceful encouragement between the Catholic Spanish and the Natives of the Americas
Sure. Encouraged. I guess a sword to one's throat is quite "encouraging."
Not Mexico... but you should look up "Hatuey."
Hatuey;
"Here is the God the Spaniards worship. For these they fight and kill; for these they persecute us and that is why we have to throw them into the sea... They tell us, these tyrants, that they adore a God of peace and equality, and yet they usurp our land and make us their slaves. They speak to us of an immortal soul and of their eternal rewards and punishments, and yet they rob our belongings, seduce our women, violate our daughters. Incapable of matching us in valor, these cowards cover themselves with iron that our weapons cannot break.."
Yea, sounds like peaceful encouragement between the Catholic Spanish and the Natives of the Americas
I've noticed that you have still not provided a single shred of evidence that a single native was forced into conversion by the Spanish.
I've noticed that you have still not provided a single shred of evidence that a single native was forced into conversion by the Spanish.
It's well documented in history that the Spanish and Portuguese forced conversion to Catholicism all over Central and South America in the 16th Century. If you failed to learn that in history class, that's on you. I'm not wasting my time to look up links for you.
There's no need to sugarcoat anything. The Spanish brought civilization to the Americas and saved the natives from their eventual self-destruction by routing the demons they worshipped.
Do you have a specific example of a "convert or die" incident, or a specific individual who faced this situation?
"Brought civilisation to the Americas."
Yeaaa... I'm not touching that with a 10-foot pole.
This is why banning books in Florida is a terrible idea.
It's well documented in history that the Spanish and Portuguese forced conversion to Catholicism all over Central and South America in the 16th Century. If you failed to learn that in history class, that's on you. I'm not wasting my time to look up links for you.
Right. They're basically gas lighting at this point. No one is even shaming anyone for being Christian in the 21st century but one cannot deny what Christians did in the era of colonisation. The only reason talking about this would bother you, is if your beliefs are still stuck in that era. Any modern contemporary Christian can separate their current identity from what was done to Indigenous people in the 1490s and the centuries following. If they can't do that, perhaps they should pray
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