Revelations (Help you.. Help me) (Antichrist, believers, Moses, priests)
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Preterist... shhhhhh.. the thread isn't debating preterism..
So far blue and little_elmer (I think thats right) have me intrigued.
Thanks to all for their replies. I think I'm still just a little gun shy with the Book of Revelations.
It "feels" different.. way different than the rest of the NT.
Hi bigthirsty,
I don't think so, its just more concentrated. If you notice the synoptic Gospels all have their Revelation like chapters like Mark 13, Luke 21 and Matthew 24. John lacks such content but rather has an entire book expanding this.
Revelation 1
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Mark 13
26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Revelation 11
1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood,[a] saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
What a strange coincidence that the war between Judea and Rome was 42 months. Weird huh?
Mark 13
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[d] spoken of by Daniel the prophet,[e] standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house
This is also scattered elsewhere
Luke 11
42 “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 43 Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites![g] For you are like graves which are not seen, and the men who walk over them are not aware of them
...
49 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.
Revelation 16
4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying:
“ You are righteous, O Lord,[b]
The One who is and who was and who is to be,[c]
Because You have judged these things.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
For[d] it is their just due.”
Its all over the NT unless one has been effectively brain washed. To not consider Revelation an historical allegory about the destruction of Judea is to leave the Gospels in shambles. The Generation that Jesus condemned was bypassed from some other generation thousands of years later? What is the justification?
This was the justification for judgment
Luke 11
1 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.
Has Jesus been performing miracles now to warrant such judgment? The Judean judgment of that time was a constant and continuous theme. Revelation was just a bit more allegorical than most places but certainly not this apocalyptic sections in the Gospels.
1 Thessalonians 2
14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
Preterist! It's good to see you again. I was hoping you'd pop in.
I don't think you will like my answer, but I just don't believe all of Revelation has been fulfilled. I don't know if a quarter or half or two thirds or three quarters or whatever has been fulfilled, but I am sure that Jesus coming back hasn't been. God has not given me any peace about it. Until He does, I'm going to keep on believing.
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation 21:4
That has not come to pass. You can pull things out to say everything has, but that has not. I still cry tears, I hurt, people die, I mourn...
It's the simple little things that speak to me.
Hi, Stirring Waters: God gives us peace when we glean truths from His Word. What is the basis of your peace? How do you expect to receive peace from Him?
Revelation 21:4 has indeed come to pass--in His kingdom which is not of this world. In this life and in this world, there is still pain and suffering and sorrow. God never promised to remove those things from this world. In His kingdom which is not of this world, which we will fully enter at our departing this world, there is no death, no pain, no tears, etc. The problems people have with the preterist approach is that they are looking for Utopia here on this earth. That is not where it is found. It is found in the new heavens and new earth of the new covenant kingdom.
Please notice Revelation 22:6 and 22:10. Unlike Daniel (Dan. 12), John was told to NOT seal up the prophecy of the book. Why? Because for Daniel the fulfillment was far off, but for John, the fulfillment was "near." John was shown those things which were to shortly take place. That included the wiping away of tears!
Preterist... shhhhhh.. the thread isn't debating preterism..
So far blue and little_elmer (I think thats right) have me intrigued.
Thanks to all for their replies. I think I'm still just a little gun shy with the Book of Revelations.
It "feels" different.. way different than the rest of the NT.
bigthirsty: I was not debating preterism--I was debating the teachings found in the book of Revelation. Those teachings just happen to fall in line with preterism! If we will not acknowledge the plain time frame clearly delineated in both the first and last chapters of the book, we will never understand the content! If one ignores the fact that John was shown those things which were shortly to take place because the time was then near and looks to a far-distant fulfillment, he will miss the entire meaning of the book. That is what futurists do.
Hi, Stirring Waters: God gives us peace when we glean truths from His Word. What is the basis of your peace? How do you expect to receive peace from Him?
Revelation 21:4 has indeed come to pass--in His kingdom which is not of this world. In this life and in this world, there is still pain and suffering and sorrow. God never promised to remove those things from this world. In His kingdom which is not of this world, which we will fully enter at our departing this world, there is no death, no pain, no tears, etc. The problems people have with the preterist approach is that they are looking for Utopia here on this earth. That is not where it is found. It is found in the new heavens and new earth of the new covenant kingdom.
Please notice Revelation 22:6 and 22:10. Unlike Daniel (Dan. 12), John was told to NOT seal up the prophecy of the book. Why? Because for Daniel the fulfillment was far off, but for John, the fulfillment was "near." John was shown those things which were to shortly take place. That included the wiping away of tears!
I've said it around here before...I didn't come to the Lord because of the promise of eternal life or the fear of hell...I came to Him because I love Him...need Him... So really, I leave the fulfillment of Revelation to the Lord.
The Book of Revelation is full of prophecies that are about to be fulfilled in the very near future. It is a book written in such a way not for everyone to understand but the Bible said the wise would understand. The wise are those who fear God and obey all his Commandments.
The Book of Revelation is full of prophecies that are about to be fulfilled in the very near future. It is a book written in such a way not for everyone to understand but the Bible said the wise would understand. The wise are those who fear God and obey all his Commandments.
The Star Wormwood of Rev. 8 is already on its way to our solar system... this is possibly the reason why the Mayan Calendar ends in Dec 21, 2012... that could be the date of its passage.
Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
The Star Wormwood of Rev. 8 is already on its way to our solar system... this is possibly the reason why the Mayan Calendar ends in Dec 21, 2012... that could be the date of its passage.
Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
The date everyone is anticipating, 2012, will come and go - so that the scoffers will have time to scoff:
"Where is the promise of His coming! See? All things continue as they always have." (2Peter 3)
The date everyone is anticipating, 2012, will come and go - so that the scoffers will have time to scoff:
"Where is the promise of His coming! See? All things continue as they always have." (2Peter 3)
Bless.
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