Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
nothing divides like discussions on Baptism and Tithing.
Here's what God says in Malachi
Mal 3:10
“Bring the entire tithe into the storehouse so that there may be food in my temple. Test me in this matter,” says the Lord who rules over all, “to see if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until there is no room for it all.
The only place where God says... I dare ya... go 'head and try me on this one. Has anyone ever tried this? I double dare ya... and from a spiritual perspective... give first fruits, give cheerfully and not under obligation.
"A man's heart is reveled in his check book".
This is old Testament. If you believe and follow this from the Old Testament, then you have to do everything else God required the Children of Israel to do in the Old Testament. You can't just pick and choose.
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn
nothing divides like discussions on Baptism and Tithing.
Here's what God says in Malachi
Mal 3:10
“Bring the entire tithe into the storehouse so that there may be food in my temple. Test me in this matter,” says the Lord who rules over all, “to see if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until there is no room for it all.
The only place where God says... I dare ya... go 'head and try me on this one. Has anyone ever tried this? I double dare ya... and from a spiritual perspective... give first fruits, give cheerfully and not under obligation.
"A man's heart is reveled in his check book".
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359
This is old Testament. If you believe and follow this from the Old Testament, then you have to do everything else God required the Children of Israel to do in the Old Testament. You can't just pick and choose.
Thanks for your observations... buy your only partially right.
Malachi is the OT but here is the verse in the NT from my OP.
2Co 9:7
Each one of you should give just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, because God loves a cheerful giver.
I'm not picking and choosing... my post represents my attitude, my understanding, my perspective towards tithing. Do you think God has changed His mind since the NT? or has He used Jesus to give us a spiritual understanding of the OT?
again.... without discernment, discussions about tithing usually divide..... but I digress.
with all due respect, Mal 3 is the only verse the tithers can bring except is isn't acurate in its context at all.
are you doing this as well,
1) distinguihsing between clean and unclean aniamls? LEV 20:25
2) don't make yourself abominable by beast or by bird, or by any thing that creeps on the ground that I have deemed unclean vs 25
3) don't make any bald place on your head Lev 21: 5
4) don't shave the edges of your beard vs 6
6) don't any cuttings in your flesh vs 7
7) any harlot who defiels herself shall be burned with fire Lev vs 9
8) he who is the high priest shall not marry any woman but a virgin vs 14
9) any one who touches an unclean thing shall not eat the holy offerings until they wash themselves Lev 22: 6
my favorite:
Lev22 :14
"and if a man eats the holy offering unintentionally, then he shall restore a holy offering to the priest and add one fifth to it.
I submit to you in love that God was speaking as it is recorded to Israel once more by his prophet Malachi and that when you bring togethr all OT scripture and see just what God so "ordered" because it is there in black and white, then you'll see malachi is totally insufficient with which to hang an entire theology on.
once more, preachers use malachi to fill the coffers with money. Should a man of God be paid 155,000 to preach to a wealthy church?he is certainly not like the rich young ruler, who was told by Jesus to sell all he had.
Why should an equally gifted associate only make 36,000 like it is at my church?
the point is Malachi cannot hold a candle to what Paul preached.
How can you be a slave to malachi and do your tenth, and then speak grace in ephesians ? To do this is to have saltand fresh water coming out of the same well like James said. you can't have it both ways. it is either malachi my friend or please, don't let me see you writing about Grace and justification by faith, because malachi is diametrically opposed to grace. sorry, no cake and eat it too
Last edited by dave737driver; 03-21-2009 at 10:14 AM..
Maybe y'all should put this in the "trust your bible thread" ! The bible states we are to tithe 10 percent.
No, actually it doesn't. The tithe was instituted by God for several different reasons. Based upon my study of the tithe, Israelites with land gave 23% of the increase of the land (crops and animals) for support of the Levites and priests, to enjoy before God in feasts, and (the 10% every third year that averages to an extra 3+% a year) went to feed the poor.
We now have a priesthood of believers and no longer have the temple and the old priesthood. Therefore, it is impossible for us to give that ten percent (which is usually the ten percent the modern churches want.) We will fellowship with others in the church, so our resources will freely and cheerfully be directed in that manner. Furthermore, we are now, with the law written on our hearts, to give to support the poor and needy, to give to support those people doing the work of the gospel, and to support the church. These will not be legalistic commands, but will be a natural result of being indwelled by the Spirit. When we do this, we are living the way God designed us to live.
Some people like to say that Abraham (Abram at time of story) tithed. However, if you read the passage, Abraham gave 10% of the spoils of battle one time to Melchizedek, and gave the other 90% back to the people it was taken from. He never tithed the increase of the land he was settled on. There is no example of true tithing in the Bible before the Law of Moses.
I've also read, interestingly enough but unverified by me, that the tithe related only to what was made off of land in Israel. If you lived outside of the land given to the Israelites by God, you did not tithe on that land. Also, if you were a tradesman, you did not tithe. You never tithed on money from a trade. This matches up to the Bible because the Bible always talks about increase from the land (crops and animals.)
Also, the tithe was every tenth animal. In other words, it was the last of every ten, not the first. So if you had 68 animals, it would seem that you would only give 6, not 7. Why then do modern preachers talk about the "first ten percent"?
Abraham tithed to Melchisidek, the high priest of salem, because once a year , an atoning sacrifice would be made for sin. animals were sacrificed for sin, this shedding of blood was OT theology.
Jesus, the lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world, died and rose again. His shedding of blood , forvever, once and for all, satisifed the sin debt that God the father required as a one time sacrifice.
tithing is gone, but heart purposed giving as Jesus desicribes in Mark12:41 is in. in fact, when Jesus comes into your life , you may as Matthew the tax collector did, decide to repay four fold for your sins of cheating people, not ten percent.
The rich young ruler thought he had paid up his account too, until jesus said, no sell it all. He couldn't do it the bible says.
It amazes me to see so many that have been deceived by preachers twisting the word of God to make church budgets, and yet forget what the gospel of Jesus christ says. and right after the collection, they'll start a sermon on grace. it is simply amazing. you cannot preach the gospel and read it word for word and see what Jesus did at the cross. with jesus two minas is 200% more than ten percent. please read the gospel and Pauls' epistles 10 times if that is what it takes to see the heresy in modern tithing theology. one cannot hold up one verse written through a prophet to God's people Israel, and in one sentence say the entire work of God, salvation, hangs on it...10% of your wages...that is utter blasphemy against the holy spirit.
think about the logic here. ten per cent of your measly pay check is greater than what Jesus, did at the cross. do you really think you can satisfy the only name given under heaven by which a man could saved by ten percent of your pay check? so my 150.00 this week, is more sufficent than the crucifiction, death, burial ,and resurrection of jesus Christ.
with all due respect, Mal 3 is the only verse the tithers can bring except is isn't acurate in its context at all.
are you doing this as well,
1) distinguihsing between clean and unclean aniamls? LEV 20:25
2) don't make yourself abominable by beast or by bird, or by any thing that creeps on the ground that I have deemed unclean vs 25
3) don't make any bald place on your head Lev 21: 5
4) don't shave the edges of your beard vs 6
6) don't any cuttings in your flesh vs 7
7) any harlot who defiels herself shall be burned with fire Lev vs 9
8) he who is the high priest shall not marry any woman but a virgin vs 14
9) any one who touches an unclean thing shall not eat the holy offerings until they wash themselves Lev 22: 6
my favorite:
Lev22 :14
"and if a man eats the holy offering unintentionally, then he shall restore a holy offering to the priest and add one fifth to it.
I submit to you in love that God was speaking as it is recorded to Israel once more by his prophet Malachi and that when you bring togethr all OT scripture and see just what God so "ordered" because it is there in black and white, then you'll see malachi is totally insufficient with which to hang an entire theology on.
once more, preachers use malachi to fill the coffers with money. Should a man of God be paid 155,000 to preach to a wealthy church?he is certainly not like the rich young ruler, who was told by Jesus to sell all he had.
Why should an equally gifted associate only make 36,000 like it is at my church?
the point is Malachi cannot hold a candle to what Paul preached.
How can you be a slave to malachi and do your tenth, and then speak grace in ephesians ? To do this is to have saltand fresh water coming out of the same well like James said. you can't have it both ways. it is either malachi my friend or please, don't let me see you writing about Grace and justification by faith, because malachi is diametrically opposed to grace. sorry, no cake and eat it too
... with all due respect... Have you tested God in this matter?
Jam 5:12 b
But let your “Yes” be yes and your “No” be no, so that you may not fall into judgment.
2Co 9:7
Each one of you should give just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, because God loves a cheerful giver.
I'm not picking and choosing... my post represents my attitude, my understanding, my perspective towards tithing. Do you think God has changed His mind since the NT? or has He used Jesus to give us a spiritual understanding of the OT?
Just as the above verse reads, we are to give as we decide (not a set 10%), not reluctantly or under compulsion (a church should not FORCE members to give a certain amount), and we are to give with a cheerful heart.
Giving is commanded in the NT, but a set 10% of income, pre or post tax, is not commanded.
I believe giving comes in all packages as well. I was married to an unbeliever who would allow me to give $5 a week to the church, even though he made good money. I gave to the church in other ways...with my time, teaching, etc.
you were investing in real estate a few years back. You made a killing!! Then the market changed... and if you were still there your probably one of those statisic's we read about. Remember things of this world get moths and rust (find this in scripture). However God 's kingdom is a good investment... in all-ways and always has been. We are exhorted to store in heaven, but how do we do this? here on earth? Many, many ways for sure... our time, our energy, our devotion, our hearts, our souls, our minds and yes... even our money (blaspheming Evangelical!). How dare he speak of tithes! and offerings
Now lets go back to real estate. When the market was providing a over-abundant return, were the investors cheerful to invest? we they investing under complusion? or did they feel it was an obligation? How about... number one. They were rolling in big bucks... making a killing!!!
God PROMISES to provide an over abundance... and says "test me". So I say... have you taken God up on His promise to provide? How big is your God? and who is your God? How strong is your faith? to believe God that He will do what He says He will do.
I'm just saying.......
PS... take the test you'll be glad (cheerful) did!
That $1.40? I received $25 for that. The Lord is good. We will not be getting a paycheck this week. Nada. The Lord gave us $25. Just like that. He is amazing!
hey, i have a journal of amazing blessings that God has given and done for me. most are not monetary. he has poured out his storehouse, tithers want money though. checks ar what Mike Murdock,creflo, TD jakes, joyse meyer and her 30 million jet, jesse duplantis, ken copeland. they all want money from God.
your tithing belief says God I'll 10 percent if you promise a hundred fold return in hard cash. what if the storehouse was an orphan kid? or a kid with down syndrome? that taught you to really love someone.
how about this. God is the giver of wisdom. he loves to pour this out.
you and others place an entire theology and doctrine on a prophets word spoken to Israel.
But like robert Kelly who has authored a book about the errancy of it and the fixed payment, you tithers can't get past the 1 sentence of the debate.
what do you say about Mark 12:41.? do you dismiss the words of Jesus Christ?
Is Malachi a prophet, now a mouthpiece for the entire new covenant?
I said I am FOR heart purposed, cheerful, sacrificial giving.
you see I am not against giving to the church for I know the power bill needs to be paid.
But when a layman or preacher wants to preach grace out of Paul's epistles and then hand me a pledge card with OT theology and Lev, Deuteronomy all over it, I reject it. It ain't new testament, new covenant theology.
I am saying to you in love, brother, that demanding that someone pay God a fixed amount given what he has said in the gospel to the young ruler in luke and about the rich pharisees and their leaven, scolded them in luke, denounced in mark; I find your case based on a prophet's words to Israel to be woefully insufficient and without any merit.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). How dare he speak of tithes! and offerings
