Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
How can you even ask such a question after all the verses I've been posting about God saving all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10,11), reconciling all mankind (Col.1:20), making all mankind righteous and justifying all mankind (Romans 5:18,19), God being All in all mankind (1 Cor.15:22-28)?
Of course I believe all mankind will be saved. But not at the same time believers are saved. The rest of mankind come later . . . much later.
lol...so you're a universalist, too? wow, that's grand.
Verse 10 says of all men who believe. Just read it. Christ died for all men--and the ones that believe are the ones that get to take advantage of it.
I already brought that out. I stated before that "God is the Saviour of all mankind ESPECIALLY of believers" (1 Tim.4:10). But "especially" does not mean "exclusively."
Here is an examply of "especially":
2Ti 4:13 When you come, bring the traveling cloak which I left in Troas with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the vellums."
Paul won't get just the vellums. He will get the cloak, the scrolls and the vellums.
God will get all mankind and the believers.
BTW, your post proves you are disobedient to my Lord. You teach the opposite of what He told you to teach. He said in verse 10 of 1 Tim.4 that God IS the saviour of all mankind and in verse 11 to teach that, and in 2:4-6 "God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all" yet you have the audacity to teach the opposite.
I already brought that out. I stated before that "God is the Saviour of all mankind ESPECIALLY of believers" (1 Tim.4:10). But "especially" does not mean "exclusively."
Here is an examply of "especially":
2Ti 4:13 When you come, bring the traveling cloak which I left in Troas with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the vellums."
Paul won't get just the vellums. He will get the cloak, the scrolls and the vellums.
God will get all mankind and the believers.
BTW, your post proves you are disobedient to my Lord. You teach the opposite of what He told you to teach. He said in verse 10 of 1 Tim.4 that God IS the saviour of all mankind and in verse 11 to teach that, and in 2:4-6 "God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all" yet you have the audacity to teach the opposite.
Eusebius how how do you explain repentance and faith because this is a gigantic obstacle for us to get around. How can one get to heaven without repenting?
Interesting thread. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in between, IMHO. Christ came to save all mankind. His blood is sufficient to provide salvation to all... "That who so ever believes in him..." It is a wonderous gift of Grace made available to us all, we have only to accept it. But we DO need to accept it.
But in accepting it, do not be so bold as to condemn those whom you believe have not. Preach the Gospel, but be humble enough to know it may not be you specifically that reaches someone. We have all seen the posts on this forum that state "You are not a Christian" or "You are not saved." How presumptuous for someone to believe they know God's plan for that individual!
Argue from the heart. Argue with love and compassion. Reference a careful study of scripture and seek to be guided by the Holy Spirit. But please leave the judgement out of it, for that is not our right. Much of this thread has been civil so far, but some underlying judgement is still present or implied in some posts (on both sides).
How can you even ask such a question after all the verses I've been posting about God saving all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10,11), reconciling all mankind (Col.1:20), making all mankind righteous and justifying all mankind (Romans 5:18,19), God being All in all mankind (1 Cor.15:22-28)?
Of course I believe all mankind will be saved. But not at the same time believers are saved. The rest of mankind come later . . . much later.
Because I need you to answer it to make my point.
It's been a while since I've felt up to another Universalism thread but, for now, I'll post.
Let me start by quoting you, me, and others:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
If Jesus is your LORD, why do you not do what He tells you to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
My Lord told me to charge and teach that He is the Saviour of all mankind and will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all mankind. Yet you reproach me for doing what my Lord tells me to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. John 1:10-13
You're OP is very deceiving in both title and content......quite telling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Now then will you please quit being disobedient to my Lord and do what He tells you to do so He can be your Lord too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
I have a Lord that I am serving. His name is Jesus Christ.
If you think one of us has the 'wrong' Lord or is serving the 'wrong' master, I am not willing to change mine.....are you?
You told Fundy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
You do not believe nor teach that "we all go to heaven."
You told kdbirch:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
kdbrich, but you do teach the opposite. You teach that God is the saviour of ONLY the ones who believe. That is not what verse 10 says.
I want you to open a new thread and do nothing but teach how God is going to save all mankind. Then we will see if Jesus is your Lord.
And on and on and on
All those are great quotes and all you posters are great posters.
---------
So, back to my question that you couldn't believe I asked:
Eusebius, will all be saved?
You said, "Yes!"
Your premise, thus far, has been that ANYONE who does not teach that all will be saved is a false teacher and a liar and that they aren't serving the Lord Jesus.
So let's look at Christ Jesus, shall we?
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' Luke 13:22-25
(Emphasis mine)
So if I would have asked Jesus, "Lord, will everyone be saved?" His answer would not have been 'Yes!', as you say. For in this very passage He was SPECIFICALLY asked "Will only a few be saved?" It's very specific for a REASON and that is to teach salvation is found IN Christ and if you are not IN Christ, you will not be saved.
Would you agree that the ark is a type(as in, symbol) of Jesus?
Most would and most do...so let's look at that example and see what the scriptures show...but instead of the Old Testament story, let look and see what's in the New Testament:
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. I Peter 3:18-22
(Emphasis Mine)
Eusebius, the Lord is trying to speak to you about this. Through us, through your brother, and through His Word.
Please listen.
Hell's real. It's eternal. And it's waiting for those who are not in Christ.
Interesting thread. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in between, IMHO. Christ came to save all mankind. His blood is sufficient to provide salvation to all... "That who so ever believes in him..." It is a wonderous gift of Grace made available to us all, we have only to accept it. But we DO need to accept it.
But in accepting it, do not be so bold as to condemn those whom you believe have not. Preach the Gospel, but be humble enough to know it may not be you specifically that reaches someone. We have all seen the posts on this forum that state "You are not a Christian" or "You are not saved." How presumptuous for someone to believe they know God's plan for that individual!
Argue from the heart. Argue with love and compassion. Reference a careful study of scripture and seek to be guided by the Holy Spirit. But please leave the judgement out of it, for that is not our right. Much of this thread has been civil so far, but some underlying judgement is still present or implied in some posts (on both sides).
You had me going till......No one is being presumptuous about God's plan for the individual my friend but we do know what is a Christian from the bible. No one is judging anyone's salvation but we should NEVER go from the heart
(Jeremiah 17:9) "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Of course I believe all mankind will be saved. But not at the same time believers are saved. The rest of mankind come later . . . much later.
Amen, Eusebius. Eventually the creation/creature is to be delivered from the slavery to corruption and changed into the glorious freedom of the children of God. (Romans 8) God bless
I already brought that out. I stated before that "God is the Saviour of all mankind ESPECIALLY of believers" (1 Tim.4:10). But "especially" does not mean "exclusively."
In this passage....yeah, it does.
Read it in the ESV, considered one of the better word-for-word translations.
Quote:
Here is an examply of "especially":
2Ti 4:13 When you come, bring the traveling cloak which I left in Troas with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the vellums."
Paul won't get just the vellums. He will get the cloak, the scrolls and the vellums.
Different context. Context means everything.
The ESV says also the books, especially the parchments.
The notion is that it's available to all men----but really...it's for the believers.
Scripture just does not portray the concept of universalism anywhere. What's the purpose of going out and sharing the gospel if all people will be saved anyway/ Why did the disciples/apostles endure martydom if they and the rest of the world are to be saved anyway?
Quote:
God will get all mankind and the believers.
BTW, your post proves you are disobedient to my Lord. You teach the opposite of what He told you to teach. He said in verse 10 of 1 Tim.4 that God IS the saviour of all mankind and in verse 11 to teach that, and in 2:4-6 "God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all" yet you have the audacity to teach the opposite.
Dude......you're not exactly one to speak. You are so far into heresy if you believe Christ is a created being and you believe in universalism. Those heresies have been dealt with many years ago.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
