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They go to heaven of course. Children are born innocent, so how could they go anywhere else? I don't see how anyone could believe otherwise. This would also apply to people who are mentally handicapped to the point that they never mentally reach adulthood. Jesus in the New Testament speaks of a loving Father who takes care of his children. There is no way a loving Father would send his children to Hell. Adults, however, have free will, so we choose what kind of live we live.
Now, I do admit, that I don't know where babies go IMMEDIATELY after they die --perhaps they DO go to Heaven -to grow up -until they reach an age of accountability. (God can do this if he choses -He is GOD!)
If the babies *did* go to heaven right after death, they would be kind of like the ANGELS OF GOD back before 'the fall' --remember?
However, even the angels of GOD had what we call 'Free Will' --and, as you probably have heard, roughly ONE-THIRD of the angels (which included Lucifer aka Satan, the devil) FELL FROM GRACE.
Now, whether the babies go to heaven (like you say: THEY MAY!) --or, rather, sleep ('Soul Sleep' --they MAY!) --nonetheless, they EVENTUALLY will probably end up in as some of the citizens who live on earth during Jesus' 1,000 Year "Millennium Reign" (note: I think I mis-spelled this in prior posts, but I spell-checked it this time --LOL)
So, if this be the case, the children will (like Lucifer and other angels) have a chance to accept or reject Jesus -and, reading Rev 20:1-15 and Isaiah 65:17-25, we find that babies DO live and die (at old ages -like 100 years, hello?) --and that some people ARE still evil.
Another thing to consider: Where WILL God get these many children to populate the Millennium? “Things that make you go 'hmm...'.” --Obviously, choosing **these** children is the only scripturally-permitted alternative. As Sherlock Holmes was fond of saying: “Eliminate all other [untrue] factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.”
Since we have children that live and die -at a very old age (“And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed.” ISAIAH 65:20b, NASB) in the 1,000 Millennium Reign –and people who EVEN STILL are rebelling! (“And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.” Revelation 20:9, NASB) -doesn't it make more sense that the Bible is referring to **these** children?
Last edited by GordonWayneWatts; 01-24-2010 at 05:51 PM..
Reason: copyedit typos: 'they' not 'the' EVENTUALLY will ... etc.
Rob, while the Bible does not EXPLICITLY state one way or the other, it *does* drop **REAL STRONG** hints ... by showing some things about God's nature, and if you will review my prior posts on this topic (click my name & profile to see all my posts), you will see that both Heaven AND Hell (and Purgatory) are ALL probably wrong --that is, with respect to the EVENTUAL destination of these babies.
I am a little less certain what happen IMMEDIATELY after birth (2 main possibilities exist: Temprary solu sleep -or rather growing up in heaven), but that is moot: We are (I would suppose) MAINLY concerned with what happens to the babies long-term --not short-term.
Read my posts, review them, and then RE-read them if you have a question -or, maybe I'll answer you if possible.
Gordon
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
OK fine - I will be the voice of opposition.
Ultimately - I don't know. If you take Scripture literally, then it points towards more hell than heaven.
If you say that the baby has not committed a sin - thus making it a matter of law, then this turns out to be righteousness based on law. However, the Bible says:
Gal. 3:21 - Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
If righteousness based on the law does not result in eternal life, then the entire "babies didn't sin" argument is nuked.
Scripture continues to say:
Gal 3:22 - But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
What promise? The promise to Abraham by God that all nations will be blessed through him through faith (Gal. 3:6-14). The promise is specifically given to those who believe.
------------------------------------
If you want to argue from the David will be in heaven standpoint, there's one problem. David never speaks about heaven. When people died in the OT they were "gathered to their people". They all went to one place. (Dt. 32:50, Num. 20:26, Gen. 25:8).
I neither condemn babies who die early to hell nor assign them to heaven because the Bible is silent.
Something else to consider: Even the fallen angels (demons) were afraid to go to HELL:
** "2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit" --MARK 5:2 (KJV)
** "27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs." --LUKE 8:27 (KJV) There might have even been two demon-possessed men:
** "28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way." --MATTHEW 8:28 (KJV)
Please note the request the demons made of JESUS:
** "29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" --MATTHEW 8:29 (KJV)
** "7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not." --MARK 5:7 (KJV)
** "12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them." --MARK 5:12 (KJV)
** "32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them." --LUKE 8:32 (NKJV)
A little bit of common sense is in order here: If even the powerful fallen angels did not want to "commit suicide" and go to Hell -like so many suicide cases now-days -people who think they know what lies ahead! (and, remember, folks: The fallen angels AKA demons who spoke with JESUS did know what Hell was all about!), then why do you think it would be OK for you to go there? Really?
Last edited by GordonWayneWatts; 01-24-2010 at 06:06 PM..
Reason: spacing, boldface, underline, fix font colour, ETC. & removing *more* HTML computer symbols - . lol
We ALL deserve hell, but I don't think He would send us there without a chance to accept or reject Jesus.
This would violate John 14:6 --NO one comes to the Father BUT by the Son.
However, God is also fair and equitable -and unbiased, not showing bias or prejudice or partiality to ANYONE -thus, God would HAVE to give them one chance fair and square -and that is most likely (I think) in the thing we call the 1,000 year Millineum.
Also, the Moderator apparently cut out insults --I do get upset at things in my personal life, but I would not be mad if you insulted me on the board --I am sorry that the Moderator clipped your comments -I would like to have tried to answer your questions / concerns -but alas allon: The board is not mine, and I am a guest who accepts the authority and rule of those who do own and manage the board -and provide it for FREE for us here.
and I am honestly not sure of what the insults were, I just get really touchy with this issue.. Sorry if I offended but not exactly sure of what I said to be cut as I am usually careful with my wording.
They go to heaven of course. Children are born innocent, so how could they go anywhere else? I don't see how anyone could believe otherwise. This would also apply to people who are mentally handicapped to the point that they never mentally reach adulthood. Jesus in the New Testament speaks of a loving Father who takes care of his children. There is no way a loving Father would send his children to Hell. Adults, however, have free will, so we choose what kind of live we live.
No children are born in sin but God gives everyone a chance at the age of accountability to choose Him and be saved...
Romans 5:12 (Amplified Bible)
12Therefore, as sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men, [[a]no one being able to stop it or to escape its power] because all men sinned.
It is all a matter of being predestined for eternal life.
Jeremiah 1:5 says: "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." KJV. God knew the destiny of each one of us whether rich or poor, small or great. To support this, read Revelation REVELATION 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." KJV.
It is difficult for me to conclude that ALL babies shall go to heaven, just because they knew no sin.
After discussing this some on another thread I decided to ask CHRISTIANS what they believe happens to babies/young children who die (without baptism/or being old enough to accept salvation).
Please answer the poll, then tell us your answer and what your church affiliation is. Thanks!
PS...atheists, we already know what you think. This is a thread for Christians to say what their beliefs are. Thanks!
Well think about it for a moment - why can they even die at all? Death is ONLY a result of sin. A Judgement has passed - God pronounced a sentence upon Adam and that sentence included toil and death. As a result, all of us born of Adam share in that sentence. It doesn't mean we have practiced sin, it only means we have sin because we are in Adam. The only way someone could save us from that sin was to not be born of Adam under the same condemnation which is why Jesus was born of a virgin via the Holy Spirit. Eventually all will be saved so don't be concerned about the fate of those children and babies - a great quantity of Mercy awaits them.
Rob, while the Bible does not EXPLICITLY state one way or the other, it *does* drop **REAL STRONG** hints ... by showing some things about God's nature, and if you will review my prior posts on this topic (click my name & profile to see all my posts), you will see that both Heaven AND Hell (and Purgatory) are ALL probably wrong --that is, with respect to the EVENTUAL destination of these babies.
I am a little less certain what happen IMMEDIATELY after birth (2 main possibilities exist: Temprary solu sleep -or rather growing up in heaven), but that is moot: We are (I would suppose) MAINLY concerned with what happens to the babies long-term --not short-term.
Read my posts, review them, and then RE-read them if you have a question -or, maybe I'll answer you if possible.
Gordon
You don't need real strong hints. The Bible is not based on hints.
1 Cor. 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
All babies are in Adam. It is only through faith that we are transferred to Christ and we are made alive. Unless there is some unmentioned grace that occurs - this is it. The Bible does not support babies going to heaven.
Babies that die, go to God who is the just judge. Whether the go to heaven or hell after this is up for debate. I think that being innocent of sinful deeds (like the unborn) does not make anyone righteous. So, these humans who never got to experience life will still have to be judged by God. But the good news is God and just and pure and a righteous judge. So whatever he decides concerning each individual will be in keeping with who he is and no one will be able to say "God your wrong".
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Sorry if I offended but not exactly sure of what I said to be cut as I am usually careful with my wording.
