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Wanting to know if what you're saying about modern Israel is true or not I have searched. I have been open as I am now for chapter and verse. It has not been forthcoming for many years now. I notice you don't have any. I dare you to read The Encyclopedia Brittanica (1978 edition has it I know), its article on JUDAISM. Notice what it says about the Zionists in Israel today, the Askenazy Jews. You want to understand Bible prophecy? or prove what is popularly being said?
RAPTURE is not a Biblical term. Unless I have a miraculous operation of the word of knowledge I am very uncertain what you mean by that term. Various people have differing views. Why don't you use Biblical categories? Purge your tongue of Babylon's confusing language. If you speak of something Biblical I might be able to share something I found or studied.
Nothing in the Bible ever says the racially gentile (goyim) believers of Jesus are going to suddenly disappear. Chapter and verse?! Remember, it is not too much to ask; rather, it is imperative for those walking in the light to submit their minds to what is written in the Books of God. The opposite is taught in the Bible! "Whenever Christ, our Life, should be manifested, then you also shall be manifested together with Him in glory." (Co 3:4, CLV) Will I be left behind if my flesh is at least 51% racially descended from Abraham? This line of thought ignores God was never a racist and is against the New Covenant in Jesus blood!
Something likely as a great deception is believing the opposite of what is Written. What is the truth? We're looking for Jesus' coming, not our going! the appearing of the Lord, not the disappearing of the saints! Instead of leaving, we're taking over! Instead of expecting defeat in death, or retreat in "Rapture," we're expecting complete victory in Christ! Don't let them take away the value of your life! Racial Dispensationalism destroys our destiny by robbing the church of her true identity in Christ as the seed of Abraham and David.
Of course, millions are practising disappearing as audience members enabling a paid professional, with titles of honor from other men, to perform for them instead of honoring the presence of Christ, the head, enough to MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP with every member participating. I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program...and nobody even missed her. Talk about being robbed of all our gifts and blessings in Christ! Those who have the indwelling Spiriit of God have all the Jesus is and does within them. Maturing is becoming available to Him.
And if those in Israel say they've got the ark of the covenant, re-institute animal sacrifices, the one as an Elijah agreeing Jesus was the Messiah, even coming in His name, and calling fire out of heaven to consume those who refuse to bow down...?
I have given chapter and verse on many of my post, so I don't know what your talking about. Ezekiel chapters 37,38, and 39 speaks of the Jewish people and their return to Israel, and Jerusalem in the Last Days. And this writing predates the Encyclopedia Brittanica.
Rapture is a name we Christian tagged onto a coming event which is spoken of in Luke 17:34,35,36
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[SIZE=6]Babylon the Great of Revelation[/SIZE] byDon K. Preston
[SIZE=+1]Everyone agrees that the book of Revelation predicts the fall of Babylon; what they do not agree upon is the identity of Babylon. Some say it is Rome, Roman Catholicism, a modern day world-wide church, or apostate Christianity as a whole. One thing is certain, the interpretation of Revelation and thus much of the Bible, hinges upon who Babylon is or was.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]In Revelation the coming of Christ, the New Creation, judgment and resurrection are associated with the fall of Babylon. To mistakenly identify Babylon is to incorrectly interpret these issues. Whatever one makes Babylon to be these issues are inextricably linked with her fall! Can we identify Babylon? Yes indeed![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Revelation 16:6; 17:1-6; 18:20, 24 tell us that Babylon was drunk with the blood of the prophets. This is a critical point! The term "the prophets" appears 88 times in the New Testament. The overwhelmingly normal usage of the term refers to Old Testament prophets.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Now the city of Rome, the Roman Catholic church, apostate Christianity, nor any modern world-wide church ever persecuted Old Testament prophets! But Babylon of Revelation did, therefore none of these can be identified as Babylon; it is just that simple! What city persecuted the Old Testament prophets and filled the Cup of her Sin by so doing? It was Jerusalem.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Comparing Matthew 23 with Revelation plainly reveals this. In Matthew 23:31 Jesus said it was Jerusalem that had killed the prophets; in Revelation it is Babylon. In Matthew 23:32 Jesus said the Jews were about to fill the cup of their sin by continuing to persecute those sent to her; in Revelation 17 Babylon has filled her cup by persecuting not only the prophets of old but the followers of Jesus as well, 17:6. In Matthew 23:35 Jesus said Jerusalem was guilty of "all the blood shed on the earth," 23:35; in Revelation 18:24 Babylon bears the guilt for "all the blood shed on the earth." In Matthew 23:36 Jesus said judgment on Jerusalem for killing the prophets would come in his generation; in Revelation Jesus said "Behold, I come quickly" 22:6, 10, 12, 20.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Such parallels are not accidental![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Finally, the Great City Babylon is "spiritually called Sodom," Rev. 11:8; and the only city in the Bible--other than historical Sodom--that is ever called Sodom is Jerusalem, Isaiah 1:10; Jer. 23:14, Ezek. 16:44f. Babylon is also "where the Lord was crucified" Rev. 11:8. Jesus was not crucified in Rome, or by the Catholic church; Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem![/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Avenging the Prophets[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]One of the major themes of Revelation is the avenging of the martyrs. This theme is stated in chapter 6:9ff; 11:11-19; 17:4-6; 18:20, 24, to cite a few passages. The judgment of Revelation is on "Babylon" the city "drunken with the blood of the saints" and "all those slain on the earth," 17:6; 18:24. Who was Babylon?[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Many believe it was Rome because the city was said to "sit on many waters" 17:2; and to rule over the kings of the earth, 17:18. But "waters" in Revelation often signifies "people" or nations instead of "H2O." See Revelation 13:1ff where the beast arose out of the "sea." Further, the city of Jerusalem was "supreme, and presided over all the neighboring country as the head does over the body" so says Josephus the Jewish historian of the first century. He also called Jerusalem "the great city" Every designation of "Babylon" in the book of Revelation was used by secular writers of the first century to describe the city of Jerusalem![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]More importantly, as just seen, Jesus defined Jerusalem as the persecuting city drunken with the blood of the saints. In Matthew 23:31-39 Jesus said it was Jerusalem that had slain the prophets through the ages. He said he would send them prophets and they would slay them also. He also said the blood of the martyr's all the way back to Abel would be judged in that generation, vss. 35-36! Read Matthew 23:29-36 side by side with Revelation 18 and see the perfect correlation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The Bible places the blame for persecuting the church squarely at the feet of Israel/Jerusalem; not on Rome![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]It was the Sanhedrin that beat Peter and John, Acts 4-5; and stoned Stephen, Acts 6-7. The Jews instigated a "great persecution" against the church in Jerusalem, Acts 8. Saul the persecutor of the early church had letters of authority from the High Priest to persecute Christians, Acts 9:2-3. Even Herod, when persecuting the church did so to please the Jews, Acts 12:1-3. The Jews in Antioch stirred up the city against Paul, Acts 13:50. The Jews stirred up the Gentiles to persecute Paul in Iconium and Derbe, Acts 14:4ff, 19f. At Thessalonica the Jews "set all the city in an uproar" attempting to kill Paul, Acts 17:5f. The Jews attempted to involve the Romans against Paul but they refused to persecute him, Acts 18:12ff. The Romans actually rescued Paul from the Jews, Acts 21:27-40.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]While the Gentiles participated in persecution against the early church, blame for instigating the persecution was pointed by Biblical writers at the Jews "who have both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men," 1 Thessalonians 2:15f.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If Revelation was written in A.D. 95-98 as is generally suggested, Rome had only persecuted the church for about four years! Nero, at the instigation of the Jews, persecuted the church from approximately A.D. 64-68. It is now being admitted that Domitian did not actually persecute the church! Are we to believe that Revelation ignores Jerusalem, the city that had persecuted the saints for centuries, and focuses on the destruction of a city that had persecuted the saints for only four years?!?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If Babylon was Jerusalem of the first century as we have suggested then the modern ideas of a coming Armaggedon, a millennium, and "end of time" judgment are false concepts. What more evidence is there that Babylon was Jerusalem of the first century?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]In Revelation 14:6f John's vision revealed an angel with the gospel to preach to all the world with the message of the soon coming judgment on Babylon. When the gospel had been preached to all the world we find the coming of the Lord in judgment because the sin of the land was full, vs. 14ff. The elements of concern here are[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]1.] the preaching of the gospel into all the world;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]2.] the filling of the measure of sin;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]3.] the soon coming of the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Notice the comparison chart of Matthew and Revelation 14.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Matt. 23-24[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Revelation 14[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Preaching to all the world, 24:14[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Preaching to all the world, 14:6[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Message of judgment, 23:34-35[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Message of judgment, 14:7[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Filling the measure of sin, 23:32[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Harvest is fully ripe, 14:5f[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Judgment in Jesus' generation, 23:34; 24:34[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The hour of judgment has come, 14:7[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]This chart shows the perfect harmony between Jesus' prediction against Jerusalem and Revelation's prediction of coming judgment against "Babylon." Can it be shown that the gospel was preached into all the world before Jerusalem fell?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]In Romans 10:18; 16:25-26 the apostle said, about 60 A.D., that the gospel had been preached to all the nations in all the world. In Colossians 1:5-7, 23, about 63-64 A.D., he said the gospel had been preached "to every creature under heaven." In Titus 2:11 he said the gospel had appeared to all men. If we are going to accept scripture the Bible says the gospel was preached in all the world before the fall of Jerusalem![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Now unless one can demonstrate that there were to be two great commissions to be preached into all the world, declaring the imminent coming judgment upon two cities that were about to fill the measure of sin by persecuting the saints of God, then consistency demands that we identify Babylon as Jerusalem of the first century. It was Jerusalem that was to fill the measure of her sin by killing the prophets; Jerusalem that Jesus said the gospel would be preached world-wide before her fall; Jerusalem that was to see his coming in his generation. Babylon was first century Jerusalem.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=6]Babylon the Great of Revelation[/SIZE] byDon K. Preston
[SIZE=+1]Everyone agrees that the book of Revelation predicts the fall of Babylon; what they do not agree upon is the identity of Babylon. Some say it is Rome, Roman Catholicism, a modern day world-wide church, or apostate Christianity as a whole. One thing is certain, the interpretation of Revelation and thus much of the Bible, hinges upon who Babylon is or was.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]In Revelation the coming of Christ, the New Creation, judgment and resurrection are associated with the fall of Babylon. To mistakenly identify Babylon is to incorrectly interpret these issues. Whatever one makes Babylon to be these issues are inextricably linked with her fall! Can we identify Babylon? Yes indeed![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Revelation 16:6; 17:1-6; 18:20, 24 tell us that Babylon was drunk with the blood of the prophets. This is a critical point! The term "the prophets" appears 88 times in the New Testament. The overwhelmingly normal usage of the term refers to Old Testament prophets.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Now the city of Rome, the Roman Catholic church, apostate Christianity, nor any modern world-wide church ever persecuted Old Testament prophets! But Babylon of Revelation did, therefore none of these can be identified as Babylon; it is just that simple! What city persecuted the Old Testament prophets and filled the Cup of her Sin by so doing? It was Jerusalem.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Comparing Matthew 23 with Revelation plainly reveals this. In Matthew 23:31 Jesus said it was Jerusalem that had killed the prophets; in Revelation it is Babylon. In Matthew 23:32 Jesus said the Jews were about to fill the cup of their sin by continuing to persecute those sent to her; in Revelation 17 Babylon has filled her cup by persecuting not only the prophets of old but the followers of Jesus as well, 17:6. In Matthew 23:35 Jesus said Jerusalem was guilty of "all the blood shed on the earth," 23:35; in Revelation 18:24 Babylon bears the guilt for "all the blood shed on the earth." In Matthew 23:36 Jesus said judgment on Jerusalem for killing the prophets would come in his generation; in Revelation Jesus said "Behold, I come quickly" 22:6, 10, 12, 20.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Such parallels are not accidental![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Finally, the Great City Babylon is "spiritually called Sodom," Rev. 11:8; and the only city in the Bible--other than historical Sodom--that is ever called Sodom is Jerusalem, Isaiah 1:10; Jer. 23:14, Ezek. 16:44f. Babylon is also "where the Lord was crucified" Rev. 11:8. Jesus was not crucified in Rome, or by the Catholic church; Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem![/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Avenging the Prophets[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]One of the major themes of Revelation is the avenging of the martyrs. This theme is stated in chapter 6:9ff; 11:11-19; 17:4-6; 18:20, 24, to cite a few passages. The judgment of Revelation is on "Babylon" the city "drunken with the blood of the saints" and "all those slain on the earth," 17:6; 18:24. Who was Babylon?[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Many believe it was Rome because the city was said to "sit on many waters" 17:2; and to rule over the kings of the earth, 17:18. But "waters" in Revelation often signifies "people" or nations instead of "H2O." See Revelation 13:1ff where the beast arose out of the "sea." Further, the city of Jerusalem was "supreme, and presided over all the neighboring country as the head does over the body" so says Josephus the Jewish historian of the first century. He also called Jerusalem "the great city" Every designation of "Babylon" in the book of Revelation was used by secular writers of the first century to describe the city of Jerusalem![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]More importantly, as just seen, Jesus defined Jerusalem as the persecuting city drunken with the blood of the saints. In Matthew 23:31-39 Jesus said it was Jerusalem that had slain the prophets through the ages. He said he would send them prophets and they would slay them also. He also said the blood of the martyr's all the way back to Abel would be judged in that generation, vss. 35-36! Read Matthew 23:29-36 side by side with Revelation 18 and see the perfect correlation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The Bible places the blame for persecuting the church squarely at the feet of Israel/Jerusalem; not on Rome![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]It was the Sanhedrin that beat Peter and John, Acts 4-5; and stoned Stephen, Acts 6-7. The Jews instigated a "great persecution" against the church in Jerusalem, Acts 8. Saul the persecutor of the early church had letters of authority from the High Priest to persecute Christians, Acts 9:2-3. Even Herod, when persecuting the church did so to please the Jews, Acts 12:1-3. The Jews in Antioch stirred up the city against Paul, Acts 13:50. The Jews stirred up the Gentiles to persecute Paul in Iconium and Derbe, Acts 14:4ff, 19f. At Thessalonica the Jews "set all the city in an uproar" attempting to kill Paul, Acts 17:5f. The Jews attempted to involve the Romans against Paul but they refused to persecute him, Acts 18:12ff. The Romans actually rescued Paul from the Jews, Acts 21:27-40.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]While the Gentiles participated in persecution against the early church, blame for instigating the persecution was pointed by Biblical writers at the Jews "who have both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men," 1 Thessalonians 2:15f.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If Revelation was written in A.D. 95-98 as is generally suggested, Rome had only persecuted the church for about four years! Nero, at the instigation of the Jews, persecuted the church from approximately A.D. 64-68. It is now being admitted that Domitian did not actually persecute the church! Are we to believe that Revelation ignores Jerusalem, the city that had persecuted the saints for centuries, and focuses on the destruction of a city that had persecuted the saints for only four years?!?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If Babylon was Jerusalem of the first century as we have suggested then the modern ideas of a coming Armaggedon, a millennium, and "end of time" judgment are false concepts. What more evidence is there that Babylon was Jerusalem of the first century?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]In Revelation 14:6f John's vision revealed an angel with the gospel to preach to all the world with the message of the soon coming judgment on Babylon. When the gospel had been preached to all the world we find the coming of the Lord in judgment because the sin of the land was full, vs. 14ff. The elements of concern here are[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]1.] the preaching of the gospel into all the world;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]2.] the filling of the measure of sin;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]3.] the soon coming of the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Notice the comparison chart of Matthew and Revelation 14.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Matt. 23-24[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Revelation 14[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Preaching to all the world, 24:14[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Preaching to all the world, 14:6[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Message of judgment, 23:34-35[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Message of judgment, 14:7[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Filling the measure of sin, 23:32[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Harvest is fully ripe, 14:5f[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Judgment in Jesus' generation, 23:34; 24:34[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The hour of judgment has come, 14:7[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]This chart shows the perfect harmony between Jesus' prediction against Jerusalem and Revelation's prediction of coming judgment against "Babylon." Can it be shown that the gospel was preached into all the world before Jerusalem fell?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]In Romans 10:18; 16:25-26 the apostle said, about 60 A.D., that the gospel had been preached to all the nations in all the world. In Colossians 1:5-7, 23, about 63-64 A.D., he said the gospel had been preached "to every creature under heaven." In Titus 2:11 he said the gospel had appeared to all men. If we are going to accept scripture the Bible says the gospel was preached in all the world before the fall of Jerusalem![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Now unless one can demonstrate that there were to be two great commissions to be preached into all the world, declaring the imminent coming judgment upon two cities that were about to fill the measure of sin by persecuting the saints of God, then consistency demands that we identify Babylon as Jerusalem of the first century. It was Jerusalem that was to fill the measure of her sin by killing the prophets; Jerusalem that Jesus said the gospel would be preached world-wide before her fall; Jerusalem that was to see his coming in his generation. Babylon was first century Jerusalem.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
There are so many levels that clearly show us that Babylon could not be first century Jerusalem. I'm running short on time here, but according to the Book of Revelation, Babylon would be destroyed in the day when the nations of the East would be able to field an army of 200 million men. I doubt there was even that many men on the earth in the first century, let alone an army of that size. Also, Babylon would be destroyed in one hours time. Nothing like this ever happened to first century Jerusalem. Sometimes we can fit some of the prophecies into some historical accounts. Yet, unless the entire prophecy is fulfilled, it should be equally obvious that first century Jerusalem could not be the Babylon of Revelation.
ahh,....Just when I was thinking you were making some good points...you turn and start to blame UFOs...
Ok listen up Erich Von Daniken, for the last time Darth Vader is NOT the Anti-Christ!...LOL
Way back in the early 1970s I read contact stories that had come from numerous people who made this claim. It was the result in some cases of automatic hand writing if you are familiar with that. What I found most interesting, was that fact that they were speaking of a future event to come, which matched the Biblical account. Yet their account was from a totally different view point. They spoke of the day when the man of peace would arrive on the world stage, and under his control would be great numbers of UFOs. And when he appears, all those who did not imbrace his vision for the future of mankind would be removed from the planet. Clearly, this is a second telling of the rapture of the church, only it will be shown to the people of that time, that this event was not an act of God, but rather occured by the hand of this future great peace maker. The Bible calls this peace maker, the Anti Christ. If you listen to the contact stories, most often many involoved with such encounters will tell you how they felt the sense of extream evil. Even one of the best known UFO researchers John Keel will tell you, that the more he researched the contact stories, the more he and some of his personal friends were drawn into the world of demonology. UFOs are real, and they are here for a purpose. And they are being accepted by great numbers of people around the world. And this should be expected, because according to the Bible, the second coming of Jesus Christ would occur near the time we see the Jewish people return to the land of Israel. And since the Devil opposes the truth of God, he is going to need a cover story that explains away the rapture of the church.
There are so many levels that clearly show us that Babylon could not be first century Jerusalem. I'm running short on time here, but according to the Book of Revelation, Babylon would be destroyed in the day when the nations of the East would be able to field an army of 200 million men. I doubt there was even that many men on the earth in the first century, let alone an army of that size. Also, Babylon would be destroyed in one hours time. Nothing like this ever happened to first century Jerusalem. Sometimes we can fit some of the prophecies into some historical accounts. Yet, unless the entire prophecy is fulfilled, it should be equally obvious that first century Jerusalem could not be the Babylon of Revelation.
So which Babylon as slain its own prophets in the city where our Lord was crucified ?
ahh,....Just when I was thinking you were making some good points...you turn and start to blame UFOs...
Ok listen up Erich Von Daniken, for the last time Darth Vader is NOT the Anti-Christ!...LOL
Actually don't shut him down. I have heard similar claims and I must say, they made good arguments. When the rapture comes, millions will disappear. How is that beyond reason?
Originally Posted by Campbell34 . UFOs are real, and they are here for a purpose. .
The purpose would appear to take your eyes off the Lord
It is my desire to be watching for the coming of Christ, and the signs of His coming. And the Bible speaks of the day of deception that will come in the last days. The Bible also tells us that the world will fall for this deception. As a Christian, I feel the need to warn those who are unaware.
Actually don't shut him down. I have heard similar claims and I must say, they made good arguments. When the rapture comes, millions will disappear. How is that beyond reason?
"beyond reason".....?
If you dont see that already, Im not sure how in the world I can show you it.
You see, all of my arguements are based on the idea that I should be able to back up what I think and say.
If the other guy thinks thats not needed, then Im at a loss...
When I say something like, "All photos of UFOs are faked" I feel nice and supported by the fact that all photos of UFOs are faked.
Dont I enjoy making a guess at something unknown?
Well sometimes.
Not everything I might have to make a guess about is something I can prove.
Like the idea I have that most all the guys who think UFOs are real more than likely also have a bunch of "Transformers" action figures on their bedroom dresser.
It's just a guess, but I think it might well be true in this case.
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