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Originally Posted by ShanaBrown Hi, if everlasting hell is true and if God wills for all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, if Jesus died for all men, then why wasn't this doctrine preached at the very beginning of man's existence? Why was it never revealed to Adam before sinned? Why was this not revealed to God's chosen people, who sinned against Him time and time again? Why has it not been revealed to each and every person that has ever lived? Why was it not revealed to the church? Where did Jesus speak of everlasting hell?
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Why ask all these questions? You ignore the answers everytime. You act as though you are honestly seeking answers but you are not.
Hi, I post the questions to encourage others to ask.
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1. "Hi, if everlasting hell is true and if God wills for all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, if Jesus died for all men, then why wasn't this doctrine preached at the very beginning of man's existence? "
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Do we know why He did not reveal this docrtine from the beginning? No. Was it hidden until the coming of Jesus? Yes. 1 Corinthians 2 (New International Version)
1 Corinthians 2
7No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
The mystery was the word of the cross, not the message of eternal hell. God is love, not a God who intentionally brings people into the world to burn in everlasting hell, and intentionally withhold this fate from them. He sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world. The message is that Jesus died for all men. He was sent to be the Savior of the world. Most will not resceive this in this age, however eventually all will acknowledge and glorify Him for this. (Philippians 2)
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2. Why was it never revealed to Adam before sinned?
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Because it was not held against them.Romans 5 (New International Version)
Romans 5
13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
Additionally...1 Peter 3 (New International Version)
1 Peter 3
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
So you believe that everyone who died under the law is or will be saved. I do also.
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3. Why was this not revealed to God's chosen people, who sinned against Him time and time again?Romans 5 (New International Version)
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Romans 5
20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
Apparently, there was a certain level of Grace that God wanted to attain. It doesn't necessarily sit well with human instinct but that's what happens when pride gets in the way of righteousness.
So you believe that the disobedient Israelites are saved or will be saved. I do also.
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4. Why has it not been revealed to each and every person that has ever lived?
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But he has...Romans 2 (New International Version)
Romans 2
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
And...Romans 1 (New International Version)
Romans 1
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
People know of God's divine nature and eternal power by the things that He has made, however, they do not know that Jesus died for them until they hear message of the cross. Jesus sent His disciples out to tell the good news. People also do not know of eternal hell (which does not exist) by looking at nature. I believe that people will be judged and that judgment has a higher purpose leading to eventual restoration of all to God. All do not come to know of Jesus at the same time, but all will come to know Him. Many will perish in this age, yet all will eventually be reunited in Jesus Christ.
Epheisans 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ! 3Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love, 5having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved, 7in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the remission of the trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8in which He did abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself, 10in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him;
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5. Why was it not revealed to the church?
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The church was not formed until Jesus passed it to Peter.Matthew 16 (New International Version)
Matthew 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[ bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
It was not preached to the church because it is not the teaching of God whose good pleasure was to reconcile all to Himself. The mystery of God's intention was revealed to the church, that being the reuniting of all things in Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 1)
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6. Where did Jesus speak of everlasting hell?
Instead of listing Scripture after Scripture, I will offer you one. Matthew 13 (New International Version)
Matthew 13
47"Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Notice in this parable that the fish are not only separated but the "bad" set are discarded. They are not set aside, placed into a pond, allowed to grow, given medicine to recover from sickness, then harvested along with the good. They are discarded.
They are discarded and eventually they will be restored. All are not saved in this age. God Himself is said to be a consuming fire and all tlhat is evil will be destroyed. All are to be subjected to Jesus so that God may be all in all (1 Cor. 15) Jesus says that the ruler of this world has been cast out and that He will draw all men unto Himself. (John 12) Evidently this includes the discarded ones.
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I am saddened that all of this work was for nought. I fear you will ignore it all, shut out the Spirit, and return to your Universalist doctrine because it seems that it in your life it overrides Scripture.
No need to be saddened, Omahabound. God works all things according to the counsel of His own will. The scriptures present that God will restore all to Himself. Thanks and God bless.
Romans 8 18For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory about to be revealed in us; 19for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; 20for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject [it] -- in* hope, 21that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God; 22for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now
I don't personally enjoy telling people that they are sinners and that God is angry with them,
Does God see beginning to end? Did He know what would happen in His creation? Was Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Why would God be angry when He knew what was going to happen? I believe that God displays anger and communicates in this way to us because we must understand that sin is wrong and that sin is not a part of His nature. He is teaching us and making us into His image. We must learn that sin is wrong and the consequences for sin, but God is agape love, not anger or hate. He punishes and displays His wrath for a higher purpose. God bless.
[quote=ShanaBrown;8950892]Originally Posted by ShanaBrown Hi, if everlasting hell is true and if God wills for all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, if Jesus died for all men, then why wasn't this doctrine preached at the very beginning of man's existence? Why was it never revealed to Adam before sinned? Why was this not revealed to God's chosen people, who sinned against Him time and time again? Why has it not been revealed to each and every person that has ever lived? Why was it not revealed to the church? Where did Jesus speak of everlasting hell?
Hi, I post the questions to encourage others to ask.
The mystery was the word of the cross, not the message of eternal hell. God is love, not a God who intentionally brings people into the world to burn in everlasting hell, and intentionally withhold this fate from them. He sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world. The message is that Jesus died for all men. He was sent to be the Savior of the world. Most will not resceive this in this age, however eventually all will acknowledge and glorify Him for this. (Philippians 2)
Quote:
So you believe that everyone who died under the law is or will be saved. I do also.
So you believe that the disobedient Israelites are saved or will be saved. I do also.
People know of God's divine nature and eternal power by the things that He has made, however, they do not know that Jesus died for them until they hear message of the cross. Jesus sent His disciples out to tell the good news. People also do not know of eternal hell (which does not exist) by looking at nature. I believe that people will be judged and that judgment has a higher purpose leading to eventual restoration of all to God. All do not come to know of Jesus at the same time, but all will come to know Him. Many will perish in this age, yet all will eventually be reunited in Jesus Christ.
Epheisans 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ! 3Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love, 5having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved, 7in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the remission of the trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8in which He did abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself, 10in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him;
It was not preached to the church because it is not the teaching of God whose good pleasure was to reconcile all to Himself. The mystery of God's intention was revealed to the church, that being the reuniting of all things in Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 1)
They are discarded and eventually they will be restored. All are not saved in this age. God Himself is said to be a consuming fire and all tlhat is evil will be destroyed. All are to be subjected to Jesus so that God may be all in all (1 Cor. 15) Jesus says that the ruler of this world has been cast out and that He will draw all men unto Himself. (John 12) Evidently this includes the discarded ones.
No need to be saddened, Omahabound. God works all things according to the counsel of His own will. The scriptures present that God will restore all to Himself. Thanks and God bless.
Romans 8 18For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory about to be revealed in us; 19for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; 20for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject [it] -- in* hope, 21that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God; 22for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now
*hope=elpis=expectation
It seems you are yet again stuck to putting words in other people's mouth's in order to feign agreement. Since you persist in your deceptive ways, our conversation ends.
Omahabound as the Lord given you light on what it actually means "if i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me" yet ?
I provided you a link and if you cannot respond to the posts in that link, then we have no need to converse. I'm not some child sitting in your theological classroom. If your only response to any post is ""if i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me", then you're too immature to bother speaking with.
In that case, I welcome you as another Universalist to the ignore list.
Once again..darkness flees from the light. Seems like he doesn`t like to debate or discuss doctrine with people who know their bible, are strong in their faith, and who he can`t bully into believing his personal theology. When you can`t refute scripture...cut and run. Another reason I love this kind of forum. So lurkers can see what happens when truth is revealed and false teaching is exposed.
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