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Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,387,379 times
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Good Morning, Troop!
Your post made me smile, especially the part about you being the fish and the different flavors of Christianity using different bait to catch you. I'm sure that's how it seems. It's too bad that some people mistake the seasonings we'll dress you with (after you're caught) for the bait. No wonder you're confused! There should only be one kind of bait, one which most professing Christians believe in--that sinful man is separated from God, and Jesus can bridge that gap.
I don't think God cares whether a Baptist or a Catholic catches you. A Universalist, mystic, or New Ager can catch you as easily as a Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, or other mainline Protestant church. A Latter Day Saint (Mormon) or a Jehovah's Witness may catch you. I don't think God's going to split hairs as long as you're truly caught.
Once you are caught, however, you should have a desire to grow in knowledge and you should have a desire to conform to the image of Christ. Many sincere believers have come out of belief systems that I believe are chock full of error. Notice I said they come out of those systems, not that they stay in. The initial message connected with them, but they eventually noticed that message didn't line up with biblical teaching.
The Bible makes it pretty clear that God's word is truth. Believers that deviate from that truth are in error. If someone continually insists on picking and choosing which parts of the Bible they want to believe in, which parts are accurately translated, which parts jive with their own preconceived notions (rather than God's), which parts best match the world's religions and philosophies (rather than God's), then I would doubt that person was ever truly caught to begin with. He was snagged, but he wasn't well and truly hooked. The problem is, the dishonest fisherman will still put pretty dressing on him in an attempt to make him palatable to the world, never admitting the fish was caught illegally.
~~~~~
I know I've said this before, but I believe the Bible doesn't exclude humanity, inspiration, reason, scientific knowledge, or any of the host of other things people say are incompatible with it. I think we can agree that not all human feelings are good or beneficial, not all inspiration, not all reason, and not all scientific knowledge. It's a matter of what can be reconciled with biblical precepts. It's really not as scary as some people want to make it.
If you were to "take the bait," I think God would accept you for who you are. Over time, He would work in your life to convince you of truth and convict you of error. He'd do a much better job than I ever would! And you know what? He'd probably let us disagree on quite a few things because there is room for grace and individuality.
Last edited by Blueberry; 06-08-2009 at 05:24 AM..
Reason: added thought
Come now, Alpha . . . God knows your heart. There was more than observation intended with that post wasn't there? . . . admit it . . . and go and sin no more. Deception is the tool of Satan. God bless you Alpha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62
Yeah,interesting how IT was the Lord.
You guys can think what you like about my motives and actions.
Fundy himself admitted he spent 12 HOURS yesterday here on cd.....so....anyway, it's rare I get to agree with Mystic so I'll just say, yeah, God knows my heart.
I've been away for a while and haven't had much time to post here, in the main forum or in the Atheist forum. Summer's gotten off to a quick start at work and I've been getting beaten up on the 'front lines' at work. But, job security is a good thing in this day and age I suppose... Anyway, as a result, I tried to read through the remainder of this thread but I had to cut it short as I simply don't have the time. I will say this much... This post did catch my attention...
Alpha, I've known you for a very long time and though I haven't known Bluefly for nearly as long, I have come to what I feel is a rather general understanding of his beliefs. Are they all Biblical in nature? I honestly don't know nor do I feel like I am in a position to critique his 'Christianity' based on that.
What I can say, or rather ask, is this:
If I happened to like Bluefly's message because it does not exclude the whole of human understanding about science, other works of literature, psychology, etc... and yet that were somehow able to lead me to Christianity would it matter to you if it were his path I followed or yours?
Alpha, I've grown up in the South dominated by the message of what it means to be 'saved,' what it means to ask for forgiveness, what believing every word of the Bible means and so on and so forth. To be quite honest with you, I would venture to guess that the majority of what people believe in this country is almost as inextricably linked to the part of the country they reside in as their accent is.
If there's one thing I've learned about living in the South most of my life it's that the people are often very kind to your face and often quick to talk about you behind your back. I suppose this comes from the inheritance of small communal ties dating back several centuries in which everyone knew everyone and nothing was sacred. Most of all, what it seems to have brought to my attention is the quick-handed ability to pre-judge or make a fastidious and hasty decision to render someone's thoughts or beliefs useless and irreconcilable with their own. Perhaps I'm not well-traveled enough inside the country to see this anywhere else - but I doubt it. I've been to most of the 50 states and I've only experienced or seen these thoughts spread mainly in the South and, admittedly, once in the Mid-West.
One of the things that intrigues me so much is how quickly people are to denounce the beliefs of others as "not Christian," "not the same Christ," or "fundamentally different" all while maintaining the attitude of trying to lure one to Christ as though I were a smallmouth bass in a redneck fishing contest and not a human being.
I guess what I don't understand is that it seems like if we were to continue with the "fishing" analogy, you are all trying to catch me and yet you are all fishermen or, should I say, fisher of men. You're all using "bait," and yet you all feel as though your bait is the only kind worthy of catching a fish. Not only that but it is as though when any other person attempts to catch a fish, or a man, it's like you try to throw him in the water to swim with the fish rather than help him reel it in or swoop in with the net to land it.
I am not the kind of person who would ever bow to a God that would make such petty demands of me that I would live my life in sheer wonderment as to my ultimate resting spot. Time and again I have heard that it will be God's decision as to what punishment one will receive for their sins. There is no God I would worship that would lead me to say such a thing. Even if proved to be true, I would rather denounce the petty, frothy God so often invoked by the Fundamentalists and Literalists and depicted as a celestial Kim Jong Il than worship him. State, or in this case heaven, sponsored self-adulation, worship and praise is not something I reconcile easily with.
To be honest with you, I can connect with Bluefly's message (as well as Mystic's message) with more understanding and clarity than I have ever conceived from another believer. This should not be confused with the idea that I have become a believer but merely that I feel as though if I were to seek a path to "righteousness," I would be more inclined to seek through them. So many centuries of humanity, inspiration, and scientific prosperity have not allowed them to shake their viewpoints but to incorporate them into their beliefs. That, Alpha, seems to me to be what faith really is. It seems as though anything outside of the Bible for so many is considered not just 'worldly' but downright 'dangerous.'
I am, as we are all, a 'child' of the world. I discern everything in my life from the experiences in the world around me and what we, as a human race, have investigated and undertaken for ourselves to discern the truth. We have come to conclusions as far reaching and absurd that many of us roll our eyes at the mere suggestion of them. But we have also come down to the downright serious and oft-thought about powerful religions, philosophies and intellectual acuities and propieties of the world. However, in all of this, our understandings, our perceptions, and our insights are as unique to each and every one of us as our personalities are. Our 'worldly' understandings are most often genuflected in our unique and individual capacity for interpreting works such as the Bible, the Koran and the Upshanids.
No other man will ever seek to hold a monopoly or lay claim to what they feel is the truth and lay fault on me for not accepting it. Should we wonder, should we have any doubt at all, that the idea of torment in hell, fiery spits of torture with Satan himself, are nothing more than ploys to cast at one another when in debate over who is going to hold a monopoly over whom? The impotent and immature jurisdictional ejaculations people have about trying to lay claim to my truth and to others truth is the answer to what has happened to the Christianity forum.
To answer the OP, nothing has happened to the Christianity forum except Christianity. How ironic is that?
Troop, it is no surprise to me that the message of the posters mentioned is more palpable than the message and gospel that I believe. It certainly 'seems right to a man', doesn't it?
That's all well and good but trying to fly it under the cloak of Christianity is a very real issue with me.
Yes, there are many denominations. However, in most of those denominations, differences are on 'fringe' differences and the message of the cross and Christ's crucifixion, sacrifice, resurrection, and our salvation(or lack thereof) is the same.
The posters you mentioned do not believe what the bible teaches. And if they don't, then I have no way of knowing if their words are truth or if it's just something they think they experienced or a collection of 'sounds good to me' words strung together and sold as Christianity.
Thankfully, in your case, you've heard what I believe, my 'version' of the gospel, and the message of Jesus Christ' call to all people.
So I've shared my heart, now we can just be friends.
Last edited by Alpha8207; 06-08-2009 at 06:50 AM..
Reason: Missed a 'T'
A very wise saying..but not a bible verse
Be Fishers of Men.... You catch 'em, He'll clean 'em. "Be fishers of men..You catch 'em, He'll clean 'em"Be Fishers of Men.... You catch 'em, He'll clean 'em.
Be Fishers of Men.... You catch 'em, He'll clean 'em.
When you see the hate, animosity, and condesension in your own post, perhaps you will begin to understand the paths of others and educate yourself on their paths rather than dismiss them as "strange".
I wish moderators would stop letting people hide hate-filled attacks behind Bible verses masked as the word of God, but until such justice reigns on these forums, I will simply say:
Don't ever call another's spiritual journey that of a dog or swine lest you wish the same to be said of yours.
You do not have a clue as to their relationship with God.
Bluefly..... I have never hid my dislike toward false teachings and those who teach error, heresy, especially that from universalism or any other and never will.....
By faith and the grace of God's strength given to me, will always trust and obey Him, rather than man and continue to speak against and casting down every argument and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. With the word of God.
His word is the truth, I will stand therefore, having girded my waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod my feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which I will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Call it what you may.....Bluefly. I will not betray my Lord Jesus to appease or compromise God's truth, His word to be accepted by the worlds path and strange ways.
Of course it is going to make the false teachers angry. The light (word of God) exposes the deeds and ways of darkness (the false teachers).
John 3:18-21
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they been done in God."
And the Lord tells us;
Who ever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil ways. 2John 3:9-11
And yes, the word of God does show us those who have a relationship with God or not! You will know them by their fruits.
1John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1Thess. 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 06-08-2009 at 06:57 AM..
Bluefly..... I have never hid my dislike toward false teachings and those who teach error, heresy, especially that from universalism or any other and never will.....
I will continue to speak against and casting down every argument and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. With the word of God.
His word is the truth, I will stand therefore, having girded my waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod my feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which I will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Call it what you may.....Bluefly. I will not betray my Lord Jesus to appease or compromise God's truth, His word to be accepted by the worlds path and strange ways.
Of course it is going to make the false teachers angry. The light (word of God) exposes the deeds and ways of darkness (the false teachers).
John 3:18-21
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they been done in God."
And the Lord tells us;
Who ever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil ways. 2John 3:9-11
And yes, the word of God does show us those who have a relationship with God or not! You will know them by their fruits.
1John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1Thess. 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.
You certainly will know them by their fruits. I see in yours an arrogance and idol worship that stands in contrast to Christ's teachings, both in the Bible and in the world of direct experience.
What say you to an individual, such as myself, who has lived by the word of John 4:1 Thes 5:21? I have tested all things and, in so doing, have been taught directly by Christ what is good and to abstain from every form of evil. I have been taught that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God. Am I wrong for abiding by the directive of the Bible that has led God to teach me that the Bible is no longer to be used as his Word?
Where did Christ say that his doctrine was to be compiled in a book centuries after he lived? Did he prophecy such a book, voted upon by various feuding sects vying greedily for power as the "official" doctrine? I see no reason to link the Bible with abiding by Christ's doctrine.
So, which is it - either we test all things and hold fast to what is good or we simply follow a book without testing anything. You can't have it both ways.
In so doing, I have been taught a far deeper wisdom than I ever could have imagined regarding the unity of all life rooted in Love.
Is it possible that we are both walking in Christ, simply different aspects? Is it possible that there is more for all of us to learn about the ways of God, and therefore a necessity to be humbled before the Lord rather than insistent that by quoting from a book we are doing his will?
You certainly will know them by their fruits. I see in yours an arrogance and idol worship that stands in contrast to Christ's teachings, both in the Bible and in the world of direct experience.
What say you to an individual, such as myself, who has lived by the word of John 4:1 Thes 5:21? I have tested all things and, in so doing, have been taught directly by Christ what is good and to abstain from every form of evil. I have been taught that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God. Am I wrong for abiding by the directive of the Bible that has led God to teach me that the Bible is no longer to be used as his Word?
Where did Christ say that his doctrine was to be compiled in a book centuries after he lived? Did he prophecy such a book, voted upon by various feuding sects vying greedily for power as the "official" doctrine? I see no reason to link the Bible with abiding by Christ's doctrine.
So, which is it - either we test all things and hold fast to what is good or we simply follow a book without testing anything. You can't have it both ways.
In so doing, I have been taught a far deeper wisdom than I ever could have imagined regarding the unity of all life rooted in Love.
Is it possible that we are both walking in Christ, simply different aspects? Is it possible that there is more for all of us to learn about the ways of God, and therefore a necessity to be humbled before the Lord rather than insistent that by quoting from a book we are doing his will?
No arrogance...I just don't agree with you, I agree with the word of God, so you call it arrogance!
I believe the word of God and it is my life and it shields and protects my life. I am nothing without Him!
Have you read your post? You contradict your own self! You state you use the scripture of testing all things, then in the same paragraph you state it isn't the inerrant Word of God, so which is it?
Quote:
What say you to an individual, such as myself, who has lived by the word of John 4:1 Thes 5:21? I have tested all things and, in so doing, have been taught directly by Christ what is good and to abstain from every form of evil.
I have been taught that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God. Am I wrong for abiding by the directive of the Bible that has led God to teach me that the Bible is no longer to be used as his Word?
No one can know God and His Truth without the word (scripture) of God and His Holy Spirit revealing His will.....through Jesus Christ!
I don't know what spirit you are listening to! Because God does not lie or contradict His very nature which is revealed through and in His word.
You contradict yourself throughout your whole post....Bluefly.
And no we are not on the same path with Christ. Christ is the word....the very book you claim is not God's inerrant word. No one can learn the ways of God and learn about or enter His kingdom with out being born again, baptised in the water and His Spirit.
Quote:
Is it possible that we are both walking in Christ, simply different aspects? Is it possible that there is more for all of us to learn about the ways of God, and therefore a necessity to be humbled before the Lord rather than insistent that by quoting from a book we are doing his will?
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of the water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 7:63-64
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they have life. But there are some of you who do not believe."
How can one believe? Unless the Father draws them to His word through Jesus Christ....where do we find that word?
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:15-18
"If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide in you forever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
How do we know His commandments......? That book you claim, your very own words " Bible is not the inerrant Word of God."
Yes, it is the way how, through His word, (the bible) and by the power of His Holy Spirit revealing His perfect will !!
Blessings
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There was more than observation intended with that post wasn't there? . . . admit it . . . and go and sin no more. Deception is the tool of Satan. God bless you Alpha.
