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Today, I don't have the time write out what I really want to say, I have to much work to do.
But some Christian Univer. believe that some will be sent to hell and then brought to heaven. There isn't any proof in scripture, none in the english bible, none in the torah.
There isn't any proof or scripture that says that God will send someone to hell and then bring them to heaven.
The best bible per say to read the bible is from the original text, which I will start to use instead of the english text. It is the best way to go. There is nothing translated, so there is no room to error.
My advise to you and others is to yes read the english bible, but learn the language so you can read the original text. My goal is to read the torah for myself. I'm having to listen to the torah as it is being read, but I will eventually know and have the knowlegde for myself, so I can read it in hebrew and greek.
I never completely just rely on the english text, I always go back to the original text.
Have you ever read the original bible. As I hear it being read there is nothing in the original bible that says that God will send someone to hell and then eventually bring them to heaven, as some believe.
And yes I do know what the word hell means as it is referred in the jewish text.
Our word hell is translated back to the word, hebrew Sheol, greek Hades, Geenna and Tartaroo.
Sheol, in the Tenakh, is a shadowy place to which the dead go. Sometimes it is translated as 'the grave', but it is not the end; life continues
Gehennam (or gehenom or gehinom (גהינום)) is the Jewish hell or purgatory. In English, Jews commonly use the term "hell" in place of ...
Tartaroo- doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer ...
When talking to someone who is jewish they will never use the word as we know hell, but they will speak of the after life and rewards and punishment in that after life based on how they live there life.
Yes, it is very important to go back to where the bible was translated but we must still understand that there are errors in how of the jews things. THere are still some jews that don't believe that Jesus is who that He said that He was. So, are they wrong or are we wrong. Was Jesus who He said that He was, or was He as some of the Jews called Him, possed by the devil.
So, you have to be careful when you use certain customs from the jews.
But the best way to try to go error free is to read the Torah for yourself and not to really rely on others who tell you what is in it. There are researchers, but they are still not error proof. Read if for yourself.
Of course we will all have to face God, but what does the bible say will happen next?
Thx for responding. You sound like a student of the bible and someone who truly SEEKS the truth and not someone who just accepts what is fed to them. I can respect and appreciate that. God Bless.
Thx for responding. You sound like a student of the bible and someone who truly SEEKS the truth and not someone who just accepts what is fed to them. I can respect and appreciate that. God Bless.
Yes, I am a bible student and I am working on being able to read the original text for myself. Until then just like others I am hearing the Torah being read. But my goal is to read it for myself. But I do have software on my com****r of the original bible that helps me to understand what I am reading.
I encourage everyone to atleast try to download a software that will help them translate the english text back to the original bible, if they can't afford to attend a school that will teach them the original language of the bible.
Today, I don't have the time write out what I really want to say, I have to much work to do.
But some Christian Univer. believe that some will be sent to hell and then brought to heaven. There isn't any proof in scripture, none in the english bible, none in the torah.
There isn't any proof or scripture that says that God will send someone to hell and then bring them to heaven.
The best bible per say to read the bible is from the original text, which I will start to use instead of the english text. It is the best way to go. There is nothing translated, so there is no room to error.
My advise to you and others is to yes read the english bible, but learn the language so you can read the original text. My goal is to read the torah for myself. I'm having to listen to the torah as it is being read, but I will eventually know and have the knowlegde for myself, so I can read it in hebrew and greek.
I never completely just rely on the english text, I always go back to the original text.
Have you ever read the original bible. As I hear it being read there is nothing in the original bible that says that God will send someone to hell and then eventually bring them to heaven, as some believe.
And yes I do know what the word hell means as it is referred in the jewish text.
Our word hell is translated back to the word, hebrew Sheol, greek Hades, Geenna and Tartaroo.
Sheol, in the Tenakh, is a shadowy place to which the dead go. Sometimes it is translated as 'the grave', but it is not the end; life continues
Gehennam (or gehenom or gehinom (גהינום)) is the Jewish hell or purgatory. In English, Jews commonly use the term "hell" in place of ...
Tartaroo- doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer ...
When talking to someone who is jewish they will never use the word as we know hell, but they will speak of the after life and rewards and punishment in that after life based on how they live there life.
Yes, it is very important to go back to where the bible was translated but we must still understand that there are errors in how of the jews things. THere are still some jews that don't believe that Jesus is who that He said that He was. So, are they wrong or are we wrong. Was Jesus who He said that He was, or was He as some of the Jews called Him, possed by the devil.
So, you have to be careful when you use certain customs from the jews.
But the best way to try to go error free is to read the Torah for yourself and not to really rely on others who tell you what is in it. There are researchers, but they are still not error proof. Read if for yourself.
Of course we will all have to face God, but what does the bible say will happen next?
You are certainly wrong. You are not reading the whole bible if you truely believe what you are saying ... Their are so many places in the bible that makes reference tot he fact that God will not abandon the souls that are banished it is ridiculous that people deny its reality.
1 Timothy 4:9-11
This is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
If God is going to damn most of his creation forever then this is a lie, and He is not the savior of all men. But i know this is not a lie, and that he is the savior of all men. No matter how you eternal torture believers may want to twist and turn and ignore the truth of the written word, it is never the less written plain as day. You do not accept the faithful saying that God is the savior of all men, but i do, and i will shout it from the roof tops ... !
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-13-2009 at 03:45 PM..
You are certainly wrong. You are not reading the whole bible if you truely believe what you are saying ... Their are so many places in the bible that makes reference tot he fact that God will not abandon the souls that are banished it is ridiculous that people deny its reality.
1 Timothy 4:9-11
This is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
If God is going to damn most of his creation forever then this is a lie, and He is not the savior of all men. But i know this is not a lie, and that he is the savior of all men. No matter how you eternal torture believers may want to twist and turn and ignore the truth of the written word, it is never the less written plain as day. You do not accept the faithful saying that God is the savior of all men, but i do, and i will shout it from the roof tops ... !
I'm not twisting anything what I got was from the hebrew and greek text.
I'm not twisting anything what I got was from the hebrew and greek text.
The message of 1 Timothy 4:9-11, is the same in the Greek. That message is simple, that god is the savior of all men, specially(Greek malista) of the believers.
Just like the message in Galatians 6:10
"As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially(Greek malista) unto them who are of the household of faith."
Just as God is the savior of all we should do good unto all ...
And just as god is especially the savior of them that believe, so are we to do good especially unto others who believe.
Its the same usage of the Greek word malista in both verses, and the same use of malista is found throughout the new testament.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-13-2009 at 07:05 PM..
The message of 1 Timothy 4:9-11, is the same in the Greek. That message is simple, that god is the savior of all men, specially(Greek malista) of the believers.
Just like the message in Galatians 6:10
"As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially(Greek malista) unto them who are of the household of faith."
Just as God is the savior of all we should do good unto all ...
And just as god is especially the savior of them that believe, so are we to do good especially unto others who believe.
Its the same usage of the Greek word malista in both verses, and the same use of malista is found throughout the new testament.
Your talking about one simple little scripture, I'm talking about the entire bible and the use of certain words that they OP was talking about. The question from the OP was the usage of Hell, and what is being said in hebrew and greek.
Jesus said that some would deny Him.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
The same applies in the greek original bible.
The OP is talking about Hell and how it is used, I simply gave the hebrew and greek words and translated how it is used in the original bible.
If you read Matthew 7:21 in the original bible it translates the same.
When we read the original bible and use the words that they use instead of everlasting, hell and others, the words that they use is clear to what the bible is saying.
Read it for yourself, I'm sure if I say you will say that I am twisting scripture.
Your talking about one simple little scripture, I'm talking about the entire bible and the use of certain words that they OP was talking about. The question from the OP was the usage of Hell, and what is being said in hebrew and greek.
Jesus said that some would deny Him.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
The same applies in the greek original bible.
The OP is talking about Hell and how it is used, I simply gave the hebrew and greek words and translated how it is used in the original bible.
If you read Matthew 7:21 in the original bible it translates the same.
When we read the original bible and use the words that they use instead of everlasting, hell and others, the words that they use is clear to what the bible is saying.
Read it for yourself, I'm sure if I say you will say that I am twisting scripture.
I disagree with you, but it seems at least you are studying something more than the KJV and your church literature which is more than some on here seem to do. So I commend you for that.
I disagree with you, but it seems at least you are studying something more than the KJV and your church literature which is more than some on here seem to do. So I commend you for that.
I study all translation, the Torah, hebrew and greek text.
I disagree with you, but it seems at least you are studying something more than the KJV and your church literature which is more than some on here seem to do. So I commend you for that.
The fact of the matter is you have some of your facts wrong.
For instance, Tartaroo is not the world of the wicked dead in Greek myth, it is the prison of the demigods. It is the prison of the fallen angels in the bible.
Quote:
But some Christian Univer. believe that some will be sent to hell and then brought to heaven. There isn't any proof in scripture, none in the english bible, none in the torah.
This whole statement is a complete misunderstanding of the UR perspective.
I don't believe personally that anyone goes to heaven. The kingdom of heaven is within us not is some other dimension. No one goes to heaven, but all will be resurrected to live in the new heavens and new earth. The lake of fire, which is the second death, is like the death we as Christians face when we the old man dies and we are born again, a new creation. That fiery judgment will purify them at last and God will be all in all, and there will be no more death and no more hell and when it is all said and done no more lake of fire, as Gods Judgment and his purpose in the ages will be consummated. The lake of fire is not an actual place but represents in the final purifying baptism of fire which will try all mens works.
1 Corinthians 3:15
"if any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
The fact of the matter is you have some of your facts wrong.
For instance, Tartaroo is not the world of the wicked dead in Greek myth, it is the prison of the demigods. It is the prison of the fallen angels in the bible.
This whole statement is a complete misunderstanding of the UR perspective.
I don't believe personally that anyone goes to heaven. The kingdom of heaven is within us not is some other dimension. No one goes to heaven, but all will be resurrected to live in the new heavens and new earth. The lake of fire, which is the second death, is like the death we as Christians face when we the old man dies and we are born again, a new creation. That fiery judgment will purify them at last and God will be all in all, and there will be no more death and no more hell and when it is all said and done no more lake of fire, as Gods Judgment and his purpose in the ages will be consummated. The lake of fire is not an actual place but represents in the final purifying baptism of fire which will try all mens works.
1 Corinthians 3:15
"if any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
2Peter 2:4 :4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell( Tartaroo), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment. As used in the greek text.
Tartaroo is defined theologically as the “deepest abyss of Hades”. Secular sources refer to this definition as coming from Greek mythology. In context its use seems to indicate that Tartaroo is for heavenly creatures that sinned what Hades is for human beings. 2Peter 2:4
Gehenna: Matthew 5:22, matthew 5: 29-30, matthew 5: 18-19, matthew 5: 18-19, Mark 9:43, Mark 9:45, Mark 9:47, Luke 12:5 (fire is not quenched)
Quote:
I don't believe personally that anyone goes to heaven
If you believe that know one personally goes to heaven, then you must think that the bible is untrue.
How do you translate 2 Kings 2:11
Really, where do you think judgement takes place? WE will stand before God in heaven sitting on His throne.
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven
Your more than welcome to look this up yourself to make sure I'm not twisting any scripture.
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 06-13-2009 at 11:33 PM..
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