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Certain viewpoints have been expressed on this forum indicating that many verses that refer to "all people", "all men", "the world", etc., really only refer to "the elect". This is simple unabashed word twisting.
There are two seperate groups talked about throughout the bible: all people (every single human), and the elect. One is a subgroup of the other. This verse shows it quite clearly:
1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Here we see God is the savior of two groups:
1. ALL men
2. those that believe (the elect)
You may ask how the elect can be saved "specially". Here is how - the elect are called and chosen to understand God's plan of salvation NOW in this life. Everyone else is not. They will be saved later, but not in this special way.
Now if "all men" only means "elect", would this verse still make sense?
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is the savior of the elect, and especially those that believe.
NO. This would be redundant and nonsensical.
All men will be saved, and the elect (those that believe) will be saved in a special way. What these word twisters really want the verse to say is this:
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is not the savior of all men but only those that believe.
Some will say it only means "all kinds of men". But either that is just a synonym for "elect", or we have this problem:
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is the savior of all kinds of men, and especially those that believe.
That would mean that out of the "all kinds of men" group, some of them don't necessarily believe, yet they will be saved.
So, please stop twisting "all people" into meaning "the elect". Its good news for ALL PEOPLE, not only the elect, just like Luke 2:10 says.
Certain viewpoints have been expressed on this forum indicating that many verses that refer to "all people", "all men", "the world", etc., really only refer to "the elect". This is simple unabashed word twisting.
There are two seperate groups talked about throughout the bible: all people (every single human), and the elect. One is a subgroup of the other. This verse shows it quite clearly:
1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Here we see God is the savior of two groups:
1. ALL men
2. those that believe (the elect)
You may ask how the elect can be saved "specially". Here is how - the elect are called and chosen to understand God's plan of salvation NOW in this life. Everyone else is not. They will be saved later, but not in this special way.
Now if "all men" only means "elect", would this verse still make sense?
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is the savior of the elect, and especially those that believe.
NO. This would be redundant and nonsensical.
All men will be saved, and the elect (those that believe) will be saved in a special way. What these word twisters really want the verse to say is this:
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is not the savior of all men but only those that believe.
Some will say it only means "all kinds of men". But either that is just a synonym for "elect", or we have this problem:
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is the savior of all kinds of men, and especially those that believe.
That would mean that out of the "all kinds of men" group, some of them don't necessarily believe, yet they will be saved.
So, please stop twisting "all people" into meaning "the elect". Its good news for ALL PEOPLE, not only the elect, just like Luke 2:10 says.
Peace.
Amen legoman. But we know the church followers on here will continue to twist and add to God`s word. They just can`t grasp the immensity of God`s love.
Amen legoman. But we know the church followers on here will continue to twist and add to God`s word. They just can`t grasp the immensity of God`s love.
That is a strawman. No one can grasp the immensity of God's love, not even you. We can only go from scripture
certain viewpoints have been expressed on this forum indicating that many verses that refer to "all people", "all men", "the world", etc., really only refer to "the elect". This is simple unabashed word twisting.
There are two seperate groups talked about throughout the bible: All people (every single human), and the elect. One is a subgroup of the other. This verse shows it quite clearly:
1 tim 4:10 for therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living god, who is the saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
here we see god is the savior of two groups:
1. All men
2. Those that believe (the elect)
you may ask how the elect can be saved "specially". Here is how - the elect are called and chosen to understand god's plan of salvation now in this life. Everyone else is not. They will be saved later, but not in this special way.
Now if "all men" only means "elect", would this verse still make sense?
1 tim 4:10 god, who is the savior of the elect, and especially those that believe.
no. This would be redundant and nonsensical.
All men will be saved, and the elect (those that believe) will be saved in a special way. What these word twisters really want the verse to say is this:
1 tim 4:10 god, who is not the savior of all men but only those that believe.
some will say it only means "all kinds of men". But either that is just a synonym for "elect", or we have this problem:
1 tim 4:10 god, who is the savior of all kinds of men, and especially those that believe.
that would mean that out of the "all kinds of men" group, some of them don't necessarily believe, yet they will be saved.
So, please stop twisting "all people" into meaning "the elect". Its good news for all people, not only the elect, just like luke 2:10 says.
Certain viewpoints have been expressed on this forum indicating that many verses that refer to "all people", "all men", "the world", etc., really only refer to "the elect". This is simple unabashed word twisting.
There are two seperate groups talked about throughout the bible: all people (every single human), and the elect. One is a subgroup of the other. This verse shows it quite clearly:
1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Here we see God is the savior of two groups:
1. ALL men
2. those that believe (the elect)
You may ask how the elect can be saved "specially". Here is how - the elect are called and chosen to understand God's plan of salvation NOW in this life. Everyone else is not. They will be saved later, but not in this special way.
Now if "all men" only means "elect", would this verse still make sense?
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is the savior of the elect, and especially those that believe.
NO. This would be redundant and nonsensical.
All men will be saved, and the elect (those that believe) will be saved in a special way. What these word twisters really want the verse to say is this:
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is not the savior of all men but only those that believe.
Some will say it only means "all kinds of men". But either that is just a synonym for "elect", or we have this problem:
1 Tim 4:10 God, who is the savior of all kinds of men, and especially those that believe.
That would mean that out of the "all kinds of men" group, some of them don't necessarily believe, yet they will be saved.
So, please stop twisting "all people" into meaning "the elect". Its good news for ALL PEOPLE, not only the elect, just like Luke 2:10 says.
Peace.
All people are not of Gods elect, for some belong to or was elected to be the devils seed..
Gen 3:
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed [non elect] and her seed [elect]; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel
2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2:6 Who [Jesus Christ] gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
thats at least the context of 1 Timothy, God want's that we thank for all men (why thank for men who will suffer everlasting torment hereafter, was Paul such cruel and cynical?), God want's all men to be saved, Christ gave his life for all therefore God is the savior of all men, which He actually only is, when He saves all.
2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2:6 Who [Jesus Christ] gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
thats at least the context of 1 Timothy, God want's that we thank for all men (why thank for men who will suffer everlasting torment hereafter, was Paul such cruel and cynical?), God want's all men to be saved, Christ gave his life for all therefore God is the savior of all men, which He actually only is, when He saves all.
No God doesnt want all men to be saved, not the devil and his children..
Jesus IS the savior of all men, there is no other savior. We have one savior and a way to be saved. As long as one believes and repents then you are saved but is Paul saying that Jesus is going to save everybody or that He is the savior of the world? I believe there is a difference there
2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2:6 Who [Jesus Christ] gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
thats at least the context of 1 Timothy, God want's that we thank for all men (why thank for men who will suffer everlasting torment hereafter, was Paul such cruel and cynical?), God want's all men to be saved, Christ gave his life for all therefore God is the savior of all men, which He actually only is, when He saves all.
Svem. I believe ALL men can be saved BUT they must believe and repent and ONLY the elect can do that. Would you please drop the everlasting torment-no one is talking about that. Paul never said, Jesus is saving all men, he says Jesus is the saviour of all men. IT IS NOT THE SAME.
The context does not limit "all men" in any way in 1 Tim 4:10. Remember this is God we are talking about. Do we have any reason to believe He could not be the Savior of all men?
If you are going to cry foul over "context", then at least show what you think the context is.
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