The Non Elect are destined for Hell (sin, Holy Spirit, Christ)

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come

Yeah.... here is another proof:

• 1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

• John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

• 1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

• Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

• Act 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Yep!
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[beloved57]

To Preach the Gospel truthfully, it must be made known, that some men and women are created for the purpose of eternal damnation, these are called vessels of wrath being fitted by the power and providence of God for eternal destruction..this makes the grace of God shine brighter for the vessels of mercy..

[beloved57]

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

Yep!
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

That verse is referring to Gods elect..col 3:12


Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Its poor referencing when you try to apply truth belonging to the elect of God, to the children of the devil..for the children of the devil are never translated into the kingdom of Jesus christ..

Here is where they are heading :

Matt 23:33

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

[Thy Kingdom Come]

I do not interpret Romans 9 in a vacuum, especially without taking a look at Hosea 1-2 since Paul said "As he saith also in Osee..." (Romans 9:25).


God's Elect In Hosea 1-2

First Dishonor

• she is not my wife, neither am I her husband
• they be the children of whoredoms
• their mother hath played the harlot
• she shall follow after her lovers
• she... multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal
• the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense

First Vessels Of Wrath & No Mercy

• the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
• thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
• I will not have mercy upon her children
• now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers
• none shall deliver her out of mine hand
• I will visit upon her the days of Baalim
• therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity
• Ephraim shall be desolate in the day of rebuke
• I will be unto Ephraim as a lion
• for in my wrath I smote thee
• In a little wrath I hid my face from thee
• For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him
• and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others

Followed By Mercy

• I will allure her and speak comfortably unto her
• I will give her vineyards from thence the valley of Achor for a door of hope
• I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth
• I will betroth thee unto me for ever
• I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness
• I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness
• I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

What do you think the "same lump" means? All mankind made from the same lump? Or one person made from the same lump?

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by legoman

What do you think the "same lump" means? All mankind made from the same lump? Or one person made from the same lump?

It might mean more than one thing, but yes "one person". Every "one person" redeemed by the LORD was once rejecting the Lord and a child of wrath -- even after hearing the word of the Lord in his/her ears (but not yet truly hearing the word of the LORD to the point of belief and obedience). e.g. Psalm 107. The redeemed of the LORD first heard the word of the LORD but rebelled against it, hardened their hearts. That made them a vessel of dishonor, and later a vessel of mercy.

Here is another reason I believe it is "one person" being formed:

• Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

I guess that doesn't really prove what "the clay" or "the lump" is, but it does show that what is being formed corresponds to indiviidual people.

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by beloved57

That verse is referring to Gods elect..col 3:12


Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

That verse only exhorts how one is to live as believers -after one elects to live the elect life, as pr Scripture, because if they do not, they do not inherit the kingdom of God, as the prior verses say.
1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come

It might mean more than one thing, but yes "one person". Every "one person" redeemed by the LORD was once rejecting the Lord and a child of wrath -- even after hearing the word of the Lord in his/her ears (but not yet truly hearing the word of the LORD to the point of belief and obedience). e.g. Psalm 107. The redeemed of the LORD first heard the word of the LORD but rebelled against it, hardened their hearts. That made them a vessel of dishonor, and later a vessel of mercy.

Here is another reason I believe it is "one person" being formed:

• Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

I guess that doesn't really prove what "the clay" or "the lump" is, but it does show that what is being formed corresponds to indiviidual people.

Thanks TKC, I never realized the significance of the "same lump" wording before... always assumed it meant all mankind. But yes I can see that one individual can both be a vessel of wrath and later a vessel of honor.

[Meerkat2]

Legoman/TKC,

I too believe that the same lump refers to individuals.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by beloved57

To Preach the Gospel truthfully, it must be made known, that some men and women are created for the purpose of eternal damnation, these are called vessels of wrath being fitted by the power and providence of God for eternal destruction..this makes the grace of God shine brighter for the vessels of mercy..

Hey can they be fitted for ETERNAL destruction?

ETERNAL means NO BEGINNING and NO ENDING. That means the destruction has NO BEGINNING.

Paul