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What definition, Robin? All concordances and all lexicons don't agree, and all concordances are not correct. Scripture shows that an age cannot mean eternity. God created the ages, not the eternities.
If aion, the Greek word for age, means eternity, there would be
a secret concealed from the eternities,
a preparation of the eternities,
the present wicked eternity,
the conclusion of the current eternity,
the coming eternity!
the oncoming eternities
(Correct tranlsation is important)
God bless.[/qoute]
I understand this but my point is that some people are make a whole doctrine from nit picked verses or words.
Eternal torment is based those nitpicked words that have been translated to support the doctrine of [eternal] torment.
the same word eternal for the torment also means the we are in the present eternity and there was a past eternity and will be a coming eternity - but eternity actually has no beginning and end so the word traslated as eternity can not actually mean eternity (eternal)
Where are the verses that say we be able to repent after death? Where is the verses that say that we will freed from eternal punishment?
eternal punishment - is the same word that is used for the past eternity and the present eternity and the future eternity - that punishment is not eternal it is aionian - the same as the past aion, the present aion, and the future aion
Those that believe are saved from aionian punishment (that ends) the same as the past aion ended and the present aion will end.
Robin please look at Revelation 20 21 and 22 - after the lake of fire which is that second death there is healing of the nations and the tree of life is available to those healed and the water of life is for those who thirst.
Robin, an age is an idefinite period of time. It has a beginning and end.
Ages have a beginning and they have an end. The scriptures refer to past ages, the present age, and ages to come. They cannot be eternal if they have a beginning and an end.
There was "a secret concealed from the aions" (ages) (past) (Eph.3:9)
There was "the preparation of the aions"(ages) (past) (Heb.11:3)
There is "the present wicked aion" (age)(present) (Gal.1:4)
There is "the conclusion of the current aion" (age) (present) (Matt 28:20)
There will be "the comingaion" (age)(future) (Luke 18:30)
There will be "the oncoming aions" (ages)(future) (Eph.2:7)
Eternity has no beginning and no end. If aion, the Greek word for age, means eternity, there would be
a secret concealed from the eternities,
a preparation of the eternities,
the present wicked eternity,
the conclusion of the current eternity,
the coming eternity!
the oncoming eternities
(Correct tranlsation is important)
Many of the concordances of today, especially the strong's concordance, base their translation on the king James version of the bible and at least the strong's admits this in the forward of the concordance itself. You cant simply rely on the understanding of men two thousand years after the events under consideration whose ideas are based on the politically influenced translations of the king James and its offspring. If you want to understand the bible in its native context you have to know the historic view of these things and the historical mind set of the people who wrote it.
Beside that lets look at the Strongs definition of the word aion shall we?
1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age
Wow, we have one little word that means two opposite things eternity, and an age. As well it is supposed to mean world or universe according to the Strongs. How could any self respecting linguist accept that this one little word could mean all these things at the same time? Talk about a linguistic nightmare as far as interpretation is concerned.
Whats more is the fact that there are other Greek words that mean the same things. For instance Aidios can be said to mean everlasting ... And Kosmos Means universe. So the translation of the word aion into the words everlasting and world can be confusing the context especially in light of the fact that Hebrew men wrote the new testament. Though the earliest surviving manuscript of the gospels are written in Greek, they are still copies and it cannot be said what the original language was. Never the less the Greek language was adopted by the earliest copiers of the original text and the Greek was used to communicate what were otherwise Hebrew concepts. We are not to understand the new testament in the light of platonic etymology and philosophy(which many believe to have been a poor etymologist; see Grote’s “Plato,” vol. ii., pp. 500-550) or Aristotlean philosophy or any Hellenistic philosophies for that matter but in light of the Hebrew concepts communicated through old testament itself.
However let us the look at Aristotle's etymology of the term Aion ...
He purports Aion derives from the Greek words "Aei"(incessantly) and "ón"(being, as in to be something; i.e "he is being gracious"). If this etymology is true then we see the the two words togther would mean incessant being. The term implies repetition. As in habitual actions or repeating cycles. Literally it could be understood in the Jewish sense of time as the various cycles of life on the wheel of time. The perpetual seasons and ages of time.
We see in Eph 1:10(*edit) that time as an whole is limited in duration at least in the sense that we understand it. The fullness of time is when the age of ages is come and represents figuratively a full cycle of the wheel of time, and culmination and full circulation of the events of the ages. That is the language of Ephesians chapter 3 as well and is there testified by scripture.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-11-2009 at 05:45 PM..
You really like twist scripture dont you, if you would take all aspects of the Bible into context there would be no contradiction. You do understand that you are not even alive in Gods eyes until you are born again.
Why do you suggest I am twisting scripture? I present the plain meaning.
Eph 2:8 says we are saved by grace, not by anything else. Agree or disagree?
Titus 2:11 says this saving grace will come (or has appeared) to all men. Agree or disagree?
My friend, it is not me who is twisting anything. I think it is you who have trouble with the plain meaning of scripture. I haven't heard back from you on the first set of verses I posted... why do you think not all will revere the Lord, when it plainly says so in scripture?
The reason you do not believe these plain scriptures is because these scriptures plainly reveal God's plan to save all men. Study it with an open mind, and God may reveal it to you.
Do you think this scripture contradicts the scriptures I posted in the OP?
Let me ask you:
1. Do you think one day every single individual will fear and revere the Lord in awe?
2. Do you think God will save those who fear and revere Him with awe?
Simple yes or no questions...
1. I believe ALL will bow!
2. I believe those that believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.
What is it you are seeking to find? That you can do nothing and still be saved? You're seeking to find an answer that is going to "stroke" you the right way? When are you going to believe that there is a heaven and a hell and we get to decide if we want to end up in either? And that the deciding is done NOW?
Hey, that's just me believing ALL that the bible has to say about being saved.
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