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Hi Trhill, here is a link were I give a rebuttle to Matt Slick from Carm concerning universal reconcilitation, it is LONG as I made sure to make an answer to every one of his point. Maybe it will be of some help in your search.
It is interesting to me that Matt Slick, the owner of CARM doesn't even allow universalists to present their case on his forum. To me that speaks volumes.
Here are more rebuttals of Matt Slick (and other ETers too) in case anyone is interested.
In defence of the cross: Rebuttal to Matt Slick on Universalism
The idea that God will redeem satan I find to be totally ludicrous, sorry. Otherwise, why did God create hell if even the devil and fallen angels are not going to go there.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 07-18-2009 at 12:44 PM..
So far , this is the best explanation I have come across for divine election and how God choosing some and not others can be understood as fair, if we have faith in God's infallibility and sense of mercy.
Doesn't need to be fair. That just tells me it is appeasing people feelings about what is not truly taught in the bible.
Jesus will accomplish his purpose as saviour of the world 100% whether you like it or not right now.
However, I don't believe the bible teaches eternal torment either, as the bible always states that the penalty for sin is death, not eternal life in torment
I am inclined to agree, although I am starting to believe, though I cannot prove it, that some will go to an as-yet-undisclosed region apart from from heaven and hell. I believe that the lake of fire is reserved only for the most evil of God's creatures, not those who led good, moral lives, but who were spiritually blind, as in Catholicism, or who never had the chance to receive the gospel. God's mercy is certainly greater than that.
The idea that God will redeem satan I find to be totally ludicrous, sorry. Otherwise, why did God create hell if even the devil and fallen angels are not going to go there.
It would have been easy for God to impress upon Satan that it would not temporarily be in his best interest to choose evil, but God didn’t do that because He had (has) an eonian plan to use the temporary existence of evil and suffering to teach lessons. Then at the consummation of God’s plan for the ages of time God will eradicate evil and suffering from existence.
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
Since all of creation is in the Son of God’s love, through Whom God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens, Col. 1:20, there is no more reason to suppose that Satan (and Judas and Hitler and Stalin) are not included therein than that any other creature is not included therein.
Therefore, it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.
A time is coming when Satan himself, the instigator of human opposition and dissension will be beneath our feet. Rom. 16:20.
Now he dominates the actions of many a saint. But later his place and power will be taken from him and we will be above him, able to subdue and control the one who, next to our flesh, was the cause of most of our miseries.
Just as the enemies of Christ will figuratively find themselves a footstool for His feet, so will the greatest of all our enemies be placed beneath our power.
But best of all, we will not retaliate. We will not use our authority to further alienate and estrange Satan from God or from ourselves. We, to whom conciliation was first presented, will be conciliatory to all, and be able to bring back all our enemies into the circle of friendship and conciliation with God.
Doubtless due to Satan’s machinations, we cannot now even bring about peace among ourselves. But then all our own differences will have been dissolved, and we will be able to bring it to our erstwhile enemy in the spirit world, the Adversary himself.
Satan is an enemy of God, and must be included among the enemies reconciled to God by the blood of Christ's cross, one of those "in heaven." Since death is the last enemy, then Satan must be reconciled to God prior to the destruction of death, and the subsequent emptying of death, and the presentation of the whole reconciled universe to God, when God becomes All in all.
RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS Reconciliation in the Heavens
C.S. Lewis wrote, “The greatest surprise for Satan will occur when he learns that he has been perfectly doing the will of God all along.”
Personally I think the greatest demonstration of God’s grace in action among the celestials will be when Satan bows in humble submission and love in front of His Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement. Chapter Eleven
I think that everyone who needs it will experience just the right amount of what the Bible calls "kolasis aionian" which means "age-during corrective chastisement."
THE LAKE OF FIRE EBY The Lake of Fire
NO ONE IS BEYOND THE REACH OF GOD'S GRACE WHICH IS ABLE AND DETERMINED TO SUCCESSFULLY INFLUENCE THE MOST STUBBORN OF WILLS AND SOONER OR LATER WILL NOT FAIL TO DO SO.
We universal reconciliationists believe that because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the power in the blood of His cross, God will eventually transform all suffering into something better that it happened for everyone, and when evil and suffering has served God’s eonian purpose, God will eradicate them both from existence.
The idea that God would create untold billions of people with the full foreknowledge that most of them would be destined for eternal torture, is totally ludicrous to me
Thanks for the links rodgertutt, I will look into them, I may not be totally convinced of UR, but I will never accept the doctrine of ET either, if ET exists then God is not all loving period, if ED (annihilation) exists, he is at least merciful even if not He's not all loving
You see I still have an earthly father, he is not the most tactful of men, he has said many hurtful things to me through the years, he is not a christian, even although he isn't a christian, I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that he would never torture me endlessly, even if it lay in his power to do so
The terms translated “forever” and “everlasting” and “never” are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times. Much in our common creeds is true if confined within the eons, but it is most malignant error when forced beyond the eons.
See, this is the stuff, for better or worse, that I tried to stay away from, because when we take the whole of the Bible, the topic can be argued from a thousand different perspectives, especially when we get into the mistranslations of key words like "eternal", "forever", everlasting" and all the rest. I felt it necessary to just stick with Jesus, as He is the ultimate authority, and trumps everyone else.
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Why the banning of universalists?
