Matthew 7:21 Puts the Lie to Universal Reconcilation (crucified, Mormon, dogma)

[ShanaBrown]

During His earthly ministry, Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but ultimately He died for the sins of the world. He was sent to be the Savior of the world. He said that if He was lifted up, (and He was), He would draw all men to Himself. God bless.

Our Lord's Earthly Ministry (http://www.gtft.org/Library/miscellaneous/OurLordsEarthlyMinistry.htm - broken link)

[nebulous1]

[SIZE=3]"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]"Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 10:5,6)1 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]

[Meerkat2]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

And that's why, if I were a full-blown UR, rather than see my family starved and then decapitated during the Great Tribulation, I'd willingly take the mark. After all, rotten cake is better than no cake at all! And I get to repent of it afterwards, too.

Thrillobyte but what is the mark and who is the beast? I don't believe it is physical buying and selling in mind and it is not a physical mark received - The ones that have the seal of God have a spiritual mark - they are called and chosen and faithful and believe the truth.

You wondered where preterist is? I do believe that there was a coming in 70AD to start the "Day of the Lord" however I think that was just the commencement starting with punishment of the Jews and the Great Tribulation has been a long one for the Jews, scattered among the nations.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days!for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Lev 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
Lev 26:3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
Lev 26:4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
Lev 26:5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
Lev 26:6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
Lev 26:7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
Lev 26:8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
Lev 26:9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
Lev 26:10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
Lev 26:11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
Lev 26:12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
Lev 26:13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
Lev 26:14 But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
Lev 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
Lev 26:16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
Lev 26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
Lev 26:19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
Lev 26:20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
Lev 26:21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
Lev 26:22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
Lev 26:23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
Lev 26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
Lev 26:25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
Lev 26:26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
Lev 26:27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
Lev 26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
Lev 26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
Lev 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Lev 26:31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
Lev 26:32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
Lev 26:33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
Lev 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
Lev 26:35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
Lev 26:36 And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
Lev 26:37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
Lev 26:38 And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
Lev 26:39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
Lev 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
Lev 26:43 The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.
Lev 26:44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
Lev 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.
Lev 26:46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

Have you done any reading on historicism?

Historicist and Historicism Bible Prophecy Truth

[ShanaBrown]

The writings of Paul reveal the purpose of Jesus for all

Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

God bless.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

The writings of Paul reveal the purpose of Jesus for all

Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

God bless.

The Greek text reads "in the heavens" (plural) which to me indicates not just on the earth, but everywhere else too.

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by nebulous1

And this:

It is Not Fair To Take The Children's Bread And Cast It To The Dogs. (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 15:22-26

Probably few would agree with me... but I believe she was a lost sheep of the house of Israel. She was the seed of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... not according to the flesh... but according to faith. Read it carefully... she begged Christ to help her. Christ's response: It is not meet to take the children's bread and give it to dogs. So did Jesus turn around do that which He just said would be wrong to do? Can't be. Jesus was only proving her faith by saying that, when in truth she was not a "dog".

• Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

• Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Jesus was not feeding a dog... he was feeding a true child of Abraham.

[ShanaBrown]

I agree, Rodger.

Young's Literal

15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.


God bless.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

But how do you know that Alison thinks that the 'unbelievers' are annihilated? I personally don't. I think it is the 'believers' who FAIL to do the will of the Father and through the sanctifying Blood of His Son who have blasphemed His Name by spreading lies and these are those that are wiped out. Annihilated!

The rest? Who knows, but the Father alone. Jesus's harshest words were to the religious hypocrites of His day. How much more harsh do think the Father will be to those who trample on the Blood of the Lamb? Heb 10:29

Following men will get you no-where, when the MAN/GOD Jesus has given us what we need to learn and understand, including His Blood, and His Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth.

It is the blasphemy of the holy spirit that will merit age long correction, not blasphemy of Christ. That we are told will be forgiven man. And the blasphemy of the holy spirit is claiming that the power of the holy spirit is demonic. I don't know of any universalist who claims that to be the case so ...

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

Yo, thrillobyte.
I can tell you sure didn't open that link!
The Lake of Fire

I'm going to, rodger. I've been doing so much reading the topic on the net that I haven't gotten to it yet.

I'd like to recommend a video on YT in which a young UR'ist expounds some basic points about UR. It's short 10 min. and it's direct, sincere and easy to understand. As I am still on the fence with this issue I can swing both ways. If anyone wants me summarize it coz they have dial-up I'd be happy to. Let me say this: one of the arguments I DON'T like about UR is that it turns God into someone who makes Hitler, Stalin, Nero and every other mass murderer in history like babes in a crib in comparison. It's God's game and we play by His rules. He's free to send everyone saved or unsaved to hell for eternity if that is His choice (thank God it's not, BTW) What argument I DO have to acknowledge is true about UR is that it makes satan the victor and God the loser in the cosmic game of saving souls; after all, how can God claim His Son's death was a victory if only 1% of humanity gets saved. Anyway, watch the video:


YouTube - God Loses, Satan Wins! (Universal Reconciliation)

[thrillobyte]

lego said:

Hi Thrillobyte,

Your understanding of the mark/antichrist is similar to what I believed before I started to learn about UR. But now I believe this understanding is incorrect.

Have you considered that your interpretation of the beast and the mark and the antichrist is perhaps not accurate here? Is there only one really scary giant antichrist that is going to appear in the "great end-times tribulation" and cut people's heads off and let families starve if they don't receive the mark? Is this really what Revelations is talking about?

meerkat said:

Thrillobyte but what is the mark and who is the beast? I don't believe it is physical buying and selling in mind and it is not a physical mark received - The ones that have the seal of God have a spiritual mark - they are called and chosen and faithful and believe the truth.

Yes, gentlemen, I must explain about the "cake" posts--they were stated that way more as a defense against the argument of UR; they have nothing to do with my actual beliefs about Revelation. For the record: I believe that Revelation has been playing out over the last 2000 years. Every man against God is the AC if he tortures Christians and forces them to bow to his anti-Christian ways. Mao was an AC; Hitler, Stalin--the list is almost endless. I don't believe in a mythical 7-year tribulation preceded by a mythological rapture and a world kingdom headed by a mythological supercat who is going to get shot in the head and then be indwelt by satan. It's all pure gobbledegook and a total mistranslation of the scriptures concocted for one reason only: to bleed bucks out of the gullible. People have heard my schpiel on this before, sorry to sound like a broken record.